have left DS in his room because he pooed in time out - please calm me down and tell me how to deal with him?

[bohemianbint]

over the last couple of days since DS dropped his nap, he gets overtired and aggressive and silly and I have put him in his room for 10 minutes, not even so much as a punishment but to give him breathing space and time to calm down.

Yesterday and today, I've put him in there and he's pooed his pants. It makes me soooooooooooooo angry because I've got so much to do with a baby as well and I don't need to be doing this! It's not a coincidence, he potty trained a month ago but will only poo when you put him in a nappy - or in his room, it seems.

I just went up to get him out of his time out (because he was being aggressive) and I had to turn around and come back downstairs and post here to stop me from losing my temper, which isn't the right way to handle it, but I'm so F$%ing fed up with it! What gets me is that he can control where he poos - he demonstrates this by only doing it in his bedroom. He is* manipulating the situation in the same way as when he says "need a wee" when he gets bored or wants to go somewhere else.

And if I can't put him in his room to calm down, what can I do? I've really got my hands full and this is making me mental...

How old is he ,my dd has been potty trained for 6 months and still has accidents sometimes.

My dsis has just had a baby and her 3 year old is really playing up maybe he is bit jealous or just hitting the toddler tantrum stage.

He's 29 months - and he is doing it on purpose, honest to god, clever little beggar. I just don't know how to handle it.

how has he coped with the new baby generally?

I am sorry to be rather harsh here, but your statement'I don't need to be doing this' is simply wrong. He is YOUR son! He has just dropped his nap, was potty trained only a month ago, was put in his room alone - what do you expect from a child? Accidents do happen, it's not like he did it deliberately, sitting there, deviously plotting how to best irritate you... You 'being mental' on top of it all can not be easy for the poor kid. Try to calm down, it would be best for all involved.

Pop him in a nappy as you are wrestling him in there? I always found if dd got really silly I used to put her in her room, and she used to fall asleep on the floor or something, so she was being silly because she was over tired and not knowing how to handle it than being naughty IYSWIM. If you put a nappy on him at least you can ignore the poos, and then it won't become an issue and then he may stop doing it. The new baby will have thrown his world upside down, so he doesn't know his place in the family at the mo, so is probably acting up because of that too.

Yeah, I was surprised how well! He wasn't too interested but now it seems like they're friends, he loves him and they share toys (a big deal as DS1 does not share with anyone else!)

Would it be terrible to just not clean him up straight away so he gets the message that pooing in pants is not nice and stops doing it?

I would seriously give him a break and yourself as well. He is far too young IMO. I think the stress you are under might actually be the trigger of his behaviour. You sound very bitter toward him. If you just had another baby it is quite frequent that the eldest has a few set backs as he is not number 1 anymore. My only advice to you is to try and relax (I know you probably hate me for saying that)

29 months is a bit young to assume that level of control IMO. I do understand how frustrating it is though! Do you think he could be doing it because he doesn't like time out (ie finds it scary or something). 10 minutes is also quite long for a child that age.

Perhaps you could look at some other forms of discipline?

As for putting him in his room to give you a break - of course you can, it is much better than firing off at him - however, if you find you are needing it regularly then, I would suggest, you need to look at the things that are causing you to feel like that?

You must clean him up straight away or he will get sore or get infections, which is not good, and won't help. You need to make light of it-just say "oh dear, have we had a poop? We will put you in a nappy next time like baby. It would be SO grown up if you could do it on the loo like daddy" or something. It is so annoying when they do this, but they really don't poo on purpose-even though it can seem that way-he is only just over 2-dd was nearly 3 1/2 before she cracked potty training.

rollmops - thanks, perhaps I haven't put it well, because I am at the end of my tether. Yes he's my son, and if it was an accident I wouldn't mind - but he is proving he is capable of holding it in all day until you put him in his room, and he has learnt that saying "I need a wee" is a get out card for any situations he doesn't want to be in. And it's wearing.

Yes, I sound unsympathetic but I'm fucking fed up, his behaviour at the moment is extremely challenging and I've got a lot of other things in my life stressing me out and when I say I don't need it, I mean it's the last thing I need right now.

We went through nightmares with DS1 and poo training. It took him a whole year from potty training before he would poo in the loo. He semed to have a complete mental block about it and would hold his poo in as long as possible before doing it in his pants.

I have no answers really, I tried everything, rewards, bribery, shouting, watching mum and dad use the loo.

Your DS really isn't doing it on purpose, he just doesn't know how to sit and let go in the loo. DS1 used to do it when he was alone because he knew we would be cross. Looking back I don't think I handled it well at all, got too cross with him but it is very hard cleaning up poo all the time.

It was resolved for us in an odd way. Basically DS1 was placed on loo by DH while DH changed DS2's nappy and DS1 got stuck on the loo and did a poo. Not stuck in an upset way just got his bum wedged a bit and couldn't get off so he was there long enough to do his poo IYSWIM. After that the accidents became less frequent and now nearly 3 years later he's more or less fine. He still leaves it till the last possible moment though.

It sounds as though you are tired and a bit overwhelmed with looking after 2 small ones, and I think the combination of a new sibling and picking up on your stress is causing him to act up. I agree 29 months and one month of being potty trained is to early to assume he is done and dusted.

Bohemianbint, I sympathise as you sound really stressed. Just to give you some shared experience - when DS was potty training, he wouldn't do a poo in potty to start with, only in a nappy. So, yes, he had control, but it was a comfort thing. I know your DS is doing it in his room in his pants, but it is his way of taking some control. He will get there with this - what worked with DS (only 2.4 now) was encouragement and telling him that we do our poos on the toilet.
From what it sounds, even though your DS1 gets on well with baby, it sounds like this could be attention. Also, 10 mins is too long time out for a 2 year old - should be 1 min for every year of life (apparently ), so maybe curtail the timeout, or instead (if you can) sit and read with him for the extra time? A friend had problems with her DD wetting herself when she was bfing her DS and found that reading to DD while bfing helped this stop happening.
I know how hard it is to calm yourself when you're stressed, so not trying to preach or say I have all the answers, but perhaps your DS is simply struggling with the same inability to calm himself.
I had same "I need a wee" thing with DS last night - he was in bed and just wanting more playtime (it was already 8.10pm fgs), had already had a wee at bedtime, so when he went "I need a wee", I said "no, you don't" then he went "I need a poo" (almost, but not quite with a question mark at the end ) and I said (knowing he had been less than hour before) "No, you don't" and laughed it off and he accepted that. They are just pushing boundaries at this age, which isn't easy to deal with, but if you can find a way to laugh, it does release the situation sometimes.
Sorry - long post, hope some of the waffle might help!

Yes, I know it can be diffcult, we have 13mo old twin boys :-) They are good as gold though - most of the time, but I have noticed that any change in their schedule gets over the top reactions now and again. They also pick up instantly on my mood, stepped on a pointy toy another day and hooowled in pain - you should have seen the worry and even fear on their little faces. Made me cry (that and the pain).
So, hang in there, try talking to him about everything you are doing, specially when you are busy with baby, keeps him involved.
It will get better.

Morning - Perhaps he didnt realise he was allowed out of his room to use the toilet, i know it sounds stupid, but sometimes kids take you literally.

My 4 year old wet himself in nursery during story time because he had been told to sit on the carpet and they werent allowed to get up until it had finished! He didnt ask to use the toilet because they had been told to sit down and be quiet!

Sometimes common sense and children just dont mix

This might sound really silly but how about putting a potty in his room?

Just on the off chance.............

I completely understand your frustrations as I had similar issues when DS arrived and DD, 2.4 was just potty trained. She would occasionally just stand up and pee on the bathroom floor on purpose, or in the lounge. She would actually look at me whilst she was doing it.

I was so overwhelmed with tiredness and the irrational part of me felt like she was being mean, manipulative and trying to wind me up.

Point is, she WASN'T. Once you have a bit of distance from it all you will see that. In the heat of this moment you are beside yourself with stress and fatigue - it is utterly understandable that you feel like this.

Please take a breath and make a nice cup of tea. Tell yourself for the next hour you're not going to try and do anything, go anywhere or achieve anything. Just sit. When you've calmed down, give your DS a huge cuddle and a nice biscuit or whatever. Tell him you love him.

Whatever you think, a new sibling coming along has a massive psychological effect on an older sibling. Even if their behaviour doesn't overtly seem related, it is. My DD just suddenly stopped sleeping through - for 5 weeks. And the did the weeeing thing. It was as though it was the only thing she knew she could control, and so she controlled it. They are at that age - the exert what little control they have where they can. It's not wicked, it's just normal, healthy behavioural development.

I'm sending you a virual hug as I've been there. But honestly, the best advice is to flip your anger on its head if you can and just hug up your DS and know that the phase will pass.

why not just put a potty in his room then if he needs a poo during time out he can go?

This isn't a judgement ob you, but 10mins is too long to leave him in time out - it should be a minute per year of their life.
Do you think he did it deliberately?

thank you for the support - it has really helped. (And made me cry.)

I didn't leave him, I went to get him. And found that he had smeared crap all over the floor, walked in it, got it all over his hands and even rubbed it into his face. I have just spent the last half hour juggling between DS2, who was inconsolable but had to be left screaming in his chair whilst I scrubbed crap off the floorboards and watched DS1 in the bath.

I am so fed up. I haven't had anything resembling sleep in nearly 3 months. DS2 feeds all the time in the night (I think last night I fed him for over 4 hours in total between 7-7. When he is asleep he thrashes, and kicks or hits me, so no chance of sleep there. He won't sleep in his co-sleeper thing. And if we ever do get a minute's peace DS1 will kick off and take an hour to go back to sleep. I'm frazzled. I've had 2 hours away from my children in 4 months. It is overwhelming.

Thanks for understanding that it's a rough time. Glad to hear it's "normal".

No wonder you have a short fuse. Does ds1 still nap, and does it coencide with ds2? Any chance you could get your head down? Any friends who could give you a hand/break. Sleep deprivation is an absolute bugger!

You poor thing - sounds like you are really fed up xx

Please don?t let him sit in it though. I understand why you are tempted, but it is not going to make it better. No need to make his bum all red and sore. WHy not go clean him up (if not already done so) and then sit down with a big mug of hot chocolate? A little time out for you perhaps might be more effective right now than time out for him!
Pop on his favourite tv show for ten minutes and plonk a few toys down while you have five minutes off with a hot drink and a sit down.

Hope you are feeling a bit more on top of it all really soon xxx We have all felt exactly the same - not much consolation but at least you know you frustration is a normal part of parenting x

Oh, and with the time out - it's more because sometimes he gets so overtired and giddy that I put him in his room so he can have a little bit of quiet time to play with his toys and calm down a little bit. Just in place of his nap now and again, as he really can't make it through without it, but won't sleep anymore.

Thank you. My mother is coming over today for a couple of hours which will give me a break from watching DS1 and will let me get things done, but won't help with the sleep IYSWIM. My family have pretty much washed their hands of us since DS2 was born so no help there. I'm just trying to get DS2 into some sort of routine so he sleeps more at night instead of the day, which is hard going, but seems to be making a slight difference. (In that he will be settled in bed for the night as opposed to needing to be stood up with and rocked for 5 hours a night. Just need to work on the thrashing. Or getting him to sleep elsewhere!)

bohemianbint where abouts are you, can any of us help you?