have left DS in his room because he pooed in time out - please calm me down and tell me how to deal with him?

[bohemianbint]

over the last couple of days since DS dropped his nap, he gets overtired and aggressive and silly and I have put him in his room for 10 minutes, not even so much as a punishment but to give him breathing space and time to calm down.

Yesterday and today, I've put him in there and he's pooed his pants. It makes me soooooooooooooo angry because I've got so much to do with a baby as well and I don't need to be doing this! It's not a coincidence, he potty trained a month ago but will only poo when you put him in a nappy - or in his room, it seems.

I just went up to get him out of his time out (because he was being aggressive) and I had to turn around and come back downstairs and post here to stop me from losing my temper, which isn't the right way to handle it, but I'm so F$%ing fed up with it! What gets me is that he can control where he poos - he demonstrates this by only doing it in his bedroom. He is* manipulating the situation in the same way as when he says "need a wee" when he gets bored or wants to go somewhere else.

And if I can't put him in his room to calm down, what can I do? I've really got my hands full and this is making me mental...

I think two is too little to be ascribed bad motives for this sort of thing

He is tiny, he is just not really in control of himself yet. You're the grown up, you can control your actions but he's too small.

I know how you feel and I think I was like this with ds1, which I horribly regret now - i thought he was doing stuff just to upset me. I totally don't feel like that about ds2. So I know I was wrong to think it iyswim. They're just tiny children.

But my God how they can wind us up and press our buttons...I still struggle to get on with ds1, I don't click with him, still feel he is trying to upset me. he isn't of course. I don't know why I feel like that.

I hope you get a break soon, but please try and give him one as well.

Please bera in mind too that regression and wanting to be a baby again is almost universal with an older sibling when their small sibling arrives.

They go backwards especially at times of stress. He's confused and feels a bit resentful, doesn't understand why he feels bad, is just trying to get things back how they used to be.

My son isn't toilet trained yet and he's three. I know you feel your son can control himself, and he probably can, but it's the thinking things through bit that isn't perfect at 29 months.

I probably would have gone nuts too if my dc1 had done this, as she was toilet trained at 28 months, but my dc2 isn't even toilet trained! He's 3 and I don't seem to expect so much from him.

It is very hard having two little ones. It was the hardest time of my life. It does get better. I feel bad now, sometimes. WHen my dc1 was the age dc2 is now, I treated her like an adult!! I still baby dc2. Poor dc1 had to grow up much quicker and I'm allowing dc2 to take his time.
Glad your mum is coming, even if it's only a once off.

Right - might have to post this in chunks because it's doing my head in to keep losing big chunks of what I write!

Mainly I wanted to say thank you for all the really supportive posts - it's really nice to be able to vent and have people understand. (All I get from my SM is "See, I told you, having kids is shit but you didn't listen..."

29 months is younger than it looks when you compare it to a tiny baby. My ds2 is 32 months and I wouldn't even consider being angry if he pooed his pants, he's not toilet trained.

he's not even two and a half, he's doing bloody well to be trained at all. He's younger than you think he is, baby him for a while. Cradle him up like you do with your youngest, and try to remember that 4 months ago, he WAS your baby.

Last message sounds curt, wasn't meant to be, promise

There's some really good posts with ideas, and I thought the idea of us all going to bed for a nap or to watch a dvd was great so I tried it. Problem is, DS only has two modes, awake and asleep. there is no chill, he's 100mph from when he wakes up to when he passes out at night. So he just bounced off the walls, shouted and wouldn't watch tv or listen to a story. I used to worry he had ADHD or something similar, but he can focus on something he's interested in for ages, its just finding that thing, which is different from one day to the next. It's mentally exhausting trying to keep him alive and out of trouble and I get so sick of the sound of my own voice.

I've tried everything, he's so determined and single minded that the usual things (divert, distract etc) only work if you can come up with a seriously better thing for him to do than what he wants to.

I'm to admit that I'm just not enjoying my life at the moment, it's so difficult when it feels like we can't do anything or go anywhere because of his behaviour, and half the time I don't even feel like he likes me, which he probably doesn't. He's all about his daddy, which I understand but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.

I'm starting to fantasise about just buggering off by myself to a travel lodge for 24 hours and getting some bloody sleep.

I remember that feeling, bohemianbint. sorry you're feeling so shit, I wish I could offer you some more ideas for help, and still thinking on it though.
What sort of things does he like to watch on tv? what sort of things does he tend to like doing? ie building, jigsaws, trains etc?

I've just re-read you're op. My DS would only poo in his nappy when first toilet trained and I remember it being really hard going.
I think he needs some one on one attention with you which I know is difficult, but he no longer has you to himself and the only way he knows to get your attention is by acting up for you.
Even just 10 minutes a day, sat with him doing something I think would help with the situation. Is this possible?

Thanks Flier.

He likes 3rd and bird, Thomas and anything train related, anything to do with throwing water around, that kind of thing. It's been difficult the last few days, we went to the park yesterday but it was seriously cold. Actually, he slept really well last night thinking about it. Perhaps I should just let him run round in subzero temperatures in the hope it knocks him out for the night!

I've been really trying to do things with him 1 on 1 lately, to the extent that I now feel guilty that DS2 doesn't get any quality time; he doesn't get played with as such, just dragged along or sat on the side while I do things with DS1.

It's ridiculous, the guilt isn't it? Seems you can't win either way!

It is normal at this age to have a preference for one parent over the other and it is usually the parent who does the least parenting. Simply because they do less telling off and more of the good stuff. It is particularly unfair when Dad turns up and the little monster you have been trying to tame for hours becomes a cute, happy bundle of love.

It is normal for a child to do it and it is normal for the parent to feel upset about it.

TBH, if you are feeling that bad then perhaps a night off is not such a bad idea. Perhaps you could work out a way that it could be done - even if you have to plan it for a little while in the future to allow for feeding your little one or something. Just having it to look forward to could really help the way you feel right now IYSWIM.

It is hard work with two so young, one of the things no-one mentions when you are pg with your second is that having two is not simply twice having one. It is a whole new way of life and it can be tough at times.

The good news is that it will get better, your little boy is changing all the time just as much as your baby is. His toilet training will come good, he will adjust to his sleeps and you will become better and better at managing his energy. Don't forget that you are still learning all of this too and it takes time!

I know, we are never done with feeling guilty nowadays! The difference is, though, that the baby won't know the difference. How old is it? DS needs you more and, once the baby needs more attention, DS will be at preschhol, won't he? There is light at the end of the tunnel

How old is baby btw?

Do you have a safe garden he can play in? I'd wrap him up and get him out. Do you involve him much in helping with his sibling?

You haven't got a profile b/bint so clearly you don't want to give any personal info - that's fair enough - but if you're anywhere near Oxford?? I'd be really happy to come over and take your ds out to the park for an hour or so tomorrow...

This is the sort of thing that our mums used to deal with by handing us over to a local teenager for a bit and letting them run us ragged for a while. It still happens sometimes - any local cousins or nice freshfaced teens who might help out?

ds2 is 18 wks now. (4 and a half months?) No garden sadly- we're looking at moving and that's a lot to do with it...

Choosy - I always get really paranoid someone might rumble me in RL! I'm in south manchester, but that's a really lovely offer, thank you. Actually the ILs are coming tomorrow so that will help, that'll be 2 afternoons this week I've had some help. And I'm still having a nervous breakdown. Lame eh.

bohemianbint - i'm in a similar boat. DS1 is 15months and into everything and DS2 is 4months. we have no family at all (apart from elderly FIL) within a 500mile radius.

i was hoping that we could pass afternoons (very long time when on your own with two small little ones) with long walks with the dogs but the weather has put paid to that. we have resorted to disney films in bed. DS1 is fascinated, i can BF DS2 without DS1 being upset and can even doze off sometimes

i promise you it does get a bit easier but i'm still at the stage that i have to take one day at a time else i get very daunted by having two babies on my own.

mumsnet is very good for info, reassurance or just sanity

bohemian - hope your week has got better

Hi Bohemian, have just been reading through thread and hope you are feeling better today. My ds sounds a lot like yours(with the exception of the pooing pants part!) and would have found having another baby when he was 2 a real struggle. Its hard when there constantly on the go and wont just sit with you for a little. My ds is now 8 and is still learning to channel his hyperactive/energetic behaviour but he is much better behaved then when he was little and can take him anywhere now. Im sure you will feel like you are coping better when you start to get more sleep, but was wondering if you might be a bit depressed? You were saying that your family have washed there hands of you, which must be hard, plus with two children to cope with. I had postnatal depression after ds was born and felt like I was constantly treading water(sorry to be dramatic!) but after dd was born last year it didnt return as I thought it might, and its been a completely different experience. Dont no if this will be of any help to you xx

I'm just getting to this stage, DS2 is a week old and DS1 is seriously playing up! He has to get out of the house every day, sub-zero temperatures or not, we just bundle him up in umpteen layers and take an extra blanket for the buggy. We don't have a garden either, so it's the only way he can get some fresh air.

I don't know if this will shed any light but we have had to start making sure that DD (who's 2) plays in her room (we all go upstairs) for about 20 minutes before bath time as she's guaranteed to poo while playing in her room (she feels relaxed?) rather than in the bath! I think while they're playing they can get very distracted too.

I am assuming that he ends up in his room at roughly the same time each day and hence pooing roughly the same time each day?

Perhaps anticipate the situation and either put a nappy on him (do you still put one on his before he sleeps?) or have 'bedroom play time' earlier before he actually gets manic? Also have the conversation about whether or not he needs to go to the loo etc, though I doubt that will help as it can be a bit 0-60 can't it?

Thank you for checking up on me! It's been an alright week, the ILs came on Thursday which again helps with DS1 but I never, ever get a total break, not even in bed. I definitely feel like we have been treading water this week, we haven't really done anything at all, just dragged ourselves through to bedtime by whatever means.

keels - have you read this book? Someone recommended it on another thread and it's been really interesting, describes DS1 to a T. Thank god DS2 isn't showing signs of being the same or I'd be throwing myself out of a window I reckon.

I have wondered if I've been a bit depressed; I struggled really badly in the early weeks, but I wondered if it was just a normal response to having two children and zero support or interest from family. (Hardly anyone came to see DS2 at all!) It is quite a stressy time, we're skint, trying to relocate to another part of the country, and the family stuff is really taking it's toll on me. I've got a GP appointment on Monday to talk about getting counselling to deal with some parent related issues but I might ask if the GP thinks it's normal or more.

Thanks again.

Hi Bohemian, glad your feeling a bit better, have never read that book but it sounds very interesting, might have to give it a read. My second child (DD) is completely different to DS, shes 14 months but could tell within the first few months that they were completely different, both very loving and affectionate but shes much calmer (thank god!) Good luck at the doctors. xx