Borstal for 4 year olds?

[mommycat]

I hope that makes you laugh.

But seriously, out 4 year old is out of control. I threatened her with children's homes, and borstal, saying she will only get grey mush to eat and not get any toys, but it just won't sink in. I even pretended to call social services to come and take her away and she just didn't pay any attention.

She won't listen, won't wear winter clothes, won't answer us and has just pooped her pants at nursery, and runs the risk of being thrown out, as it is a state nursery where being potty trained is required. (They said she was "sick" but in fact she pooped herself because she was too lazy to go to the toilet!)

What do you do to make your kids listen? To make them do what you say? And to get them to wear winter clothes in winter? We have screaming rows to get her out of the house. I explain til I am blue in the face that social services really will take her away if they see her outside in the middle of winter with no tights and short sleeves.

Mommy...

let her go out without a coat, sneak one out in a bag and when she gets cold which she will offer her the coat....

if she won't answer stop talking until she comes to you for something then walk away

as for toilet i can't help there.

When they were that little I didn't need to make them listen; I was stronger than them

If I needed to leave the house I would take her by the hand and she would leave the house perforce. If she needed to leave the house complete with tights, I would stuff her legs in them.

Gets a lot harder when they start outgrowing you though.

Hello mommycat is it really that bad or are you joking?
Try googling "positive parenting"and use that parenting style.
Praise the thingsshe does that are what you want and don't make a fuss over the things she is doing that you don't want her to do.
Otherwise as you've found ,your threats and responses become more and more excessive and she will start to do the opposite of what you want.
She can't understand complicated adult threats and arguments becos she's 4 yrs old.
Ask for a hearing check,and the gp to look in her ears in case they are blocked even if it is just during colds.
Stop shouting at her completely,make getting dressed into a game like a race then give her a sticker on a chart on the kitchen wall where it is easily seen and then tell her she's a GOOD GIRL!!
If she won't do what you want,give it a few weeks,and don't tell her off,just wait for her to do a good thing then say she's being good and give her big smiles and hugs.
Remember the main thing is put her back in your good books or she won't try to be good.
Good luck!!

of course i am somewhat joking, i am not going to send a 4 year old to Borstal. But really sometimes I just don't know what to do.

Perhaps their language skills advance far more than their emotional maturity, leading us to believe they understand more than they do.

But the complete refusal to listen drives us bonkers. it's not so much DOING "bad" things as just not listening.

btw it is NOT her hearing: if we are in another room talking ABOUT DD she will rush in and join the conversation, especially if the word "christmas" has been uttered.

thanks

I was strict with my LO's I suppose, but I wouldn't tolerate any messing of this kind, same with other essentials like seatbelts etc, there is not alrenative for them my way and thats it, yes physicaly taking them by the hand if required. But I do also agree they do outgrow you so you can not rely on physical intervention alone, I quickly realised my DS would be towering above me before he is 14 so I didn't want to be physically forcing him to do things, plus it doesn't look good to be dragging a 10 year old about.

Set the rules now, stick to your guns and take no messing, you are in charge you know best (honest ). keep at it and they willlearn who is boss.

I wouldn't talk to you and and would shit my pants if I were 4 and you were my mother threateninging to send me away.

Weh you say she is not listening to you, do you mean she is not doing as you ask her to?

I think not wearing winter clothes is normal at this age - they don't figure out until they are actally cold that warm clothes might have been a good idea. Sometimes they have to live and learn.

Oh i was going to add..

Never issue threats you can not or will not carry out. Never! sometimes you can manipulate consequences, like if you are in town and ready to go home anyway, tell them if you don't behave we are going home, they misbehave so into the car and home , point made and you did all your shopping anyway. Work with consequences not threats.

Do not give too many options, or on some occasions give no options.

Do not rely on bribary like sweets or treats, they should learn that sometimes they just have to do as they told.

hope she phones mummy borstal and has you taken away.

Christ, you cant say that to a 4 year old

BTW, Why the referance to a childrens home? They arent full of 'bad' kids you know Sorry but this has really pissed me off!!!!!!!
Not all kids go into care because they are naughty

I assumed that the Borstal threat was a joke and the OP hadn't really made it.

Quote "I threatened her with children's home''

Mommycat - you are a scary person. You would tell a 4yr old that you want her to be taken away - fucking hell. I'm quite strict with my DS (now 5) but NEVER EVER have told him I don't want him with me. I may get cross, fustrated even furious at these times I have given myself time out - removed myself from the siutation (before anyone shoots me down - I usually just leave him in one room while I fume in the kicthen). I explain to him how angry I am and that I need a few minutes alone.

Completly agree with Snowcrystal and the 'positive parenting' - if we've had a bad day (and lordy there have been a few) - when I put him to bed at night I ALWAYS tell him that I love him lots and that we'll have a better day tomorrow.

Also agree with .."Never make a threat that you can't carry out" - DS has learnt the hard way. I rarely have to carry them out these days - he is well aware that I mean it !

Praise the small things - ALOT !

If she is refusing to put on winter clothes - let her go out cold. She'll learn.

x

Mention of social services and children's homes is worse than a quick smack IMO-something that should never be said whatever the provocation.
I would get up in plenty of time, get down to her level, get her to make eye contact, explain to her what she is wearing and why. If she won't get dressed herself put her clothes on her but don't engage in any further discussion on the topic.
Does she do as she is told at nursery?

I am not in the least bit surprised she is so willful if her mother keeps telling her she doesn't want her. What a terrible terrible thing to say to any child. You should be ashamed of yourself I have a friend who regularly tells her 3 year old that if she plays up she'll take her to the shopping centre and sell her. The look on her little face is totally heartbreaking. I mentioned it to my friend but she still uses it as a threat, so we no longer meet up.

You can´t lock into a battle of wills with a 4 year old, they simply don't understand. Coercion, motivation and praise. Bribery if necessary, but please no more threats and don't let her think you don't love her

"I threatened her with children's homes, and borstal" At best she won't have a clue what you're on about, at worst you'll seriously scare her. Either way, DOn't ever make such horrible threats.

You sound like you're seriously struggling to discipline her.

One point which jumps out is you're talking and threatening far too much. " I explain til I am blue in the face" Does this not suggest to you it isn't working?

My suggestion. Stop talking so much. Ask her to do something and expect her to do it (it sounds like you expect her not to do stuff & kids tend to live up, or down to expectations)

Book 1-2-3 Magic sounds excellent for you. It really helped us with out - erm strong willed 4 yr old ds.

If she is doing something you don't like, ask her to stop. She doesn't - count 1, she continues, wait 10 second count 2, she carries on - count 3 and then there's the consequence - 4 minutes in her room, or whatever. Very easy to implement. Works very quickly.

With coat example, as already suggested, you can let her go out and bring it with her when she realises she's cold. My personal approach is to ask him to put on coat. If he refused I just said I'm not going out until he's put it on - more difficult if in hurry. But left it at that. No incessant going on. This works better after you've done it a few times, as they learn quickly if you mean business.

As other have said, you must never make threats you can't or won't carry out, but better than threats, is matter of fact consequences if they don't do what's expected. And you should have positive high expectations

This thread is worrying me and has really upset. I had this threat carried out. I have gone for years knowing my parents didnt want or love me because they put me in a care home because I was 'naughty'. There is alot of resentment and hate now and I have not spoken to my 'real parents' (apart from my step dad who is now seperated from my mother) and I never will.
Do you want your daughter to grow up hating you? Because believe me, she will.

? I'm not sure that your four year old would even be aware of a penal system that was abolished in 1982. Its a silly threat.

We (my brother and I) were threatened with Childrens homes/SS etc as children because we wouldnt 'conform' with my mothers bizarre ideas of 'home living' ( Me, a 7 year old cleaning the house whislt she lay in bed etc).
The threat was very real to us and it contributes to my lack of tolerance towards her now.

My brother did end up in prison, however- but thats another story (although it does relate significantly to my mothers attitude towards him as a child)

try and find other ways of disciplining your daughter, I know its not easy- but these threats can and do stick in your mind.

You really must not say things like this to her. As she gets older she will grow up thinking that if she doesn't behave exactly as you wish then you don't want her anymore. She needs to know that you love her unconditionally, regardless of her behaviour you want to be with her. She'll either grow up to be a very insecure child or will take the piss even more as she knows you won't carry out your threats. Either way, her behaviour will not improve. Positive parenting imo is the way to go, either that or just make her do it eg, she won't wear winter clothes, wrestle he into them if it means that much to you. I'd probably just do what others say and take a coat for when she does get cold.

threats like that will only undermine her confidence and trust in you, they will make your love and approval seem conditional and unobtainable. If you really did make those threats you have a lot of work to do to restore her faith and trust in you not the other way round.

Agree with what other posters have said, try a more considered, positive parenting approach. Set your boudaries by all means but also consider why they are boundaries (is it just your convenience or is there a genuine safety/social/emotional reason behind them). Choose your battles more carefully, its just as important for kids to learn that lifes about positive negotiation as it is for you 'to get your own way'. At 4 she's more that ready to start to be her own independent person able to make some of her own decisions (whether to wear tights or not). Try to encourage that rather than foster a need to 'control' every aspect of her life. This is a difficult step for many parents, the transition from babihood to personhood can seem like a loss of control of your own life as well as of the dcs.

The toilet issue - don't dismiss this as laziness on her part. Toilet training is a complex emotional and social issue. The stress she's feeling as a result of the threats you've issued may be a contributing factor here also.

I'm sorry if this comes across as a very personal attack on you and your parenting style. I hope you can take this in supportive spirit its intended.

The children's home threat is seriously nasty and desperately out of order. It's also counter-productive. When disciplining children of any age (and this gets truer as they get older) the only thing that really truly makes it stick is the knowledge that they are stuck with you and you are stuck with them, so eventually you are going to have to make it work. If you suggest she might get sent away, you are saying "if you don't behave there is a choice" (albeit a nasty one) and it totally undermines the essential message, there is no choice on this one; you have to comply. It also makes you as a parent start subconsciously thinking there is an opt out, when there isn't. YOU have to make it work too.

In our house, we have a couple of different forms of winter clothing, and DS has a choice between them. Perhaps you could get some tights alternatives - if you won't wear your tights, here are some warm trousers. Which are you going to wear? I do let my DS go coatless if he really refuses, and carry the coat in case hypothermia sets in. He has to learn what being cold is like (and he is a warm blooded thing who rarely needs winter clothing anyway....)

Knickers, that is desperately sad. I am amazed this could happen to any child.

Mrsgboring, tbh it has made me a much much stronger person and made me who I am and also made me a better parent.

My DD is also 4 and is the stroppiest child who will try and negociate her way out of anything she doesn't want. If that fails then she chucks herself about. EVERYTHING with her is a battle from what she has for breakfast to what she is wearing. What she does know is that ultimately these decisions are MY decisions and if she chooses not to do what she is told to do, then there are consequences. These consequences are always in line with the gravity of the act eg doesn't eat her favourite dinner than she doesn't have a dessert. The counting thing (123 Magic) really does work as long as there is a real and relative consequence.

You obviously love your daughter or you wouldn't be writing about your worries on here. I must say that your threats are not relevant to her and are disproportionately scary. You are undermining what you are trying to do without realising it. You have to get the control back by telling her that your love for her is unconditional but you DO NOT like her behaviour and that has consequences. Sanctions need to be things that actually affect her and are important to her. Don't undermine yourself with big threats (I have to admit to telling mine that I was going to put and ad in the Co-op 'Free to a good home, barely used 4 yr old...' but she knew that I was joking).

The positive parenting thing sound like you have to be airy fairy but it's surprisingly useful. You have to catch the child being good. A couple of weeks et voila- no more streesed out of her head mommy. Kids want your approval and if they don't get it unconditionally then they think why should I bother at all. Hope this doesn't seem too harsh because i believe you are just making some mistakes out of desparation but your threats are excessively unpleasant. Good luck

Of course, Knickers. I was feeling sad for the child you were, as you definitely come across as a confident parent now.

Maybe you should consider parenting classes. There is no point talking to a 4 year child like a little adult. You will confuse and scare them.

You're behaviour is having what seems to be an extremely negagative effect on your child and you've got yourself in a 'catch 22' situation IFGWIM.

Listen to some of these threads and try their methods. You are an adult and in charge ... it's a cop out to use idle and inappropriate threats on such a small child.