Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

[Neenztwinz]

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

I'd like to ask CCers this though!

How do you KNOW that they are tired and just need to learn to resettle. How do you KNOW that they don't have a tummy ache, or a head ache, or have had a nasty dream about not being able to get milk/being blasted out into another unfamiliar world, have an itch on their back etc. etc.

I'd personally prefer to comfort them 'just in case'! How else can they get me to come to them for some soothing, comforting, support if not through crying?

I personally couldn't and wouldn't sleep often when ds slept, purely for the fact that I wouldn't get anything done.
The cold hard truth is that someone still needs to clean the bathroom, do the washing up, prepare dinner, dust and hoover etc and the way I see it, if I sleep/slept along with ds through the day, I'd have to ignore him when he was awake in order to keep my household running

scifinerd, i would tend to agree with your annoying father!

starlight... My dh works away for 3 months at a time... I have a 6 year old ds who is at school, plus lots of out of school activities. I am also primary carer for my mother who has parkinsons disease plus an autistic sister. You want me to disolve my routine and sleep when dd does?????

As i said, sleeping when baby does is not practical for everyone.

Blueshoes... you have not answered my question as to if you think it is a sign of insecurity that your baby "screams" in the night if you are not there.

Ah littleboyblue your bathroom is very VERY important to you!

Tis true, - I do none of what you mention above!

barnsleybelle, i asked you that question about literature because cotedazure was so determined to pin oonagh down on literature. It is not an axe I have to grind with you. As for your forming an opinion on security or insecurity based on whether a child cries in the night for its mother is unfounded and one with which I do not agree.

I have never said that i thought CC was damaging or that it was cruel. I only know what my children need, and form no opinion or pass judgment on others because I don't know their children.

Barnsleybelle, I am very happy to answer your question. No I don't think my children are insecure to cry for me in the night. On the contrary, if I am there (which I by and large are), they are as happy as clams.

starlightt... CC does not mean ignoring your baby continually. There are many forms of it... I personally had a maximum of 5 mins. Also, if you take the time to watch and listen to your babies cries (baby whisperer) you very quickly learn to identify the sounds of different cries. I can tell immediately if dd is crying out of pain/discomfort or tiredness, they sound completely different.

barnsleybelle Is THAT why you are happy with CC? Would you have not chosen to do it were your circumstances not so busy?

IMO co-sleeping would be compatable with your lifestlye!

'I'd have to ignore him when he was awake in order to keep my household running'

I have to disagree with this. You can do loads od jobs whilst interacting with your baby. Carrying them in a sling is one solution, but not the only. You can seat them where they can see you and show them what you are doing!

barnsleybelle, I would not even count 5 minutes of crying as CC. Baby just needs a grizzle to settle. Your baby sounds very mild to me, I'm afraid. You would not be able to cope with mine

Yes it is. Not quite sure what you're trying to say starlight but it is important to me that I have a clean house.

But completely coming off the CC issue, and I'm not interested in having rows and overly harsh words with everyone, so bowing out of this thread now.
I'm quite happy with how ds is treated and how we get him to sleep or not or whatever, and how I do my housework, and how and when we all sleep, and how long I leave him to cry

Me neither for 5 mins. I never make a rule of letting my baby cry, but I have a 2 yr old, sometimes getting from one to the other takes 5 mins by which time the baby has settled! If not they get fed!

No it's not the reason.. dh was working at home and mum was well 6.5 years ago when ds was born and i did exactly the same.

Please don't wish co-sleeping on me!!!!! I need my bed for when dh gets home for his 3 week break!!!

Blueshoes... sorry if i got a bit ott!! I accept you are not one of the posters who have suggested i'm cruel...

Different strokes eh!!

Starlight, in answer to your question, you know when something else is wrong because when you go into comfort them they don't stop crying.

CC is about reassurance. You put the baby down, it cries. You comfort the baby. Put the baby down, it cries, give it a minute, comfort the baby, continue for however long it takes. Its a process, which might take a long time, it might be over in 20 minutes. If the baby wakes in the middle of the night, you don't necessarily leave him or her to self-settle, you'll listen to the cries, maybe wait a minute or two, use your
instinct and common sense.

How your baby gets to sleep is such a small part of parenting, and won't be compromised by the love, cuddles, reassurance and sound sleep your baby enjoys for the other 23 or so hours of the day.

There's no right or wrong. I've used CC, I've done co-sleeping. Its all worked because it had to. But I did find the more I had to stick with a routine (with the 3 eldest DCs) the more relaxed I was with DC4.

they would cry for longer than 5 mins, but that's how long i would wait before going in and tummy stroking.. then i would leave and leave them another 5 mins etc etc....Sometimes i was doing this for up to an hour... Took about 3 days if i remember.

Barnsleybelle, have to say that I do disagree. People and babies are all totally different and YES some of them are born GOOD sleepers! I was blessed with one such baby. I NEVER EVER left him to cry, never did CC yet he slept through for 12 hours everynight since 10 weeks. I always fed him to sleep til 12 months old and never taught him to go to sleep on his own, he just did it when he was developmentally ready. I was lucky, most are not but it's not about 'hard work' and forcing your child to self soothe. A baby has no ability to do anything them selves, no concept of how tired you are or how to even feed themselves, dress themselves, how the hell do people expect them to be able to comfort themselves? Have to say, i was never pushed to the edge through sleep deprivation so i do sympathise with people who have had months and years of broken nights and feel there is no other option. I'm sure cc crying works for some but for me it wasn't needed.
In your words God gave me a good sleeper and for that I am eternily grateful for as ds sure as hell makes up for it in the day!

littleboyblue I'm sorry if you thought I was being harsh. I truly didn't mean to be. I have found in the past (and this is MY problem I realise) that those in RL who do CC are of the stubborn domineering type who refuse to see past the end of their own noses. I perhaps wrongly allowed my experience to colour my posts here in that I may have felt the need to be over-forceful with my points. i.e. put them on the bridge of your nose where I'm certain you can see them - I expect quite unneccessarily!

However wrt a clean house, - I'm different from you in that I feel my clean house can wait until my baby is older, and that my dishes will never cut teeth!

by the way... this is a genuine question for co-sleepers... How do you fit the nooky in? .

hehehe
Discreetly, as I remember. Or in the afternoons ...

starlight... I'm the complete opposite of "the stubborn domineering type who refuse to see past the end of their own noses". If you read many of the cc threads on here you will see that in general its those who disagree with CC that tend to stick to the idea that it is cruel and we in general simply try to defend our right to parent in a way that suits us.

Nooky? I prefer mornings rather than evenings. The aupair takes both dcs out on Sunday morning ... but nothing to stop us stealing some time together in evenings after both dcs are in bed - our house does have more than one room.

Bear in mind co-sleeping is not forever (!). I did manage to get pregnant with ds fairly easily despite co-sleeping with dd.

I am a case study!
My Mum used her 10 minute rule on me and her other 8 children and we're all fine! (Once changed and fed we'd be left to sleep and if we were crying after 10 mins the routine of feeding and changing would begin again)
I did same with my little girl and she is fine and 18 months old. I still call my Mum now if I feel ill and she will always give advice that I trust, I'm sure my daughter will trust me to always be there for her too.
My rule is if you're tired you sometimes have a bit of a cry while you remember how to get to sleep. If left for 10 minutes you can get to sleep in peace. If disturbed with rocking, pacing etc you'll be asleep in 30.
When I was pregnant I'd cry inexplicably when tired until I got home or in bed to sleep. I assumed my daughter would be the same.
If a child has been asleep and then wakes up crying go and see what the matter is - don't wait 10 minutes! BUT if a small baby has been asleep and wakes up with a little cry it is sometimes worth just listening for a bit to see if they'll get themselves back to sleep as going to them can wake them properly and really upset them if they're just tired.
I don't think Neen is controlling, she's just talking about what works in her home for her children.

starlight That's ok It just shows how different we all are and how differently we like things done.

Goodluck to all of you in this debate or debates as it seems to be now. There's never going to be a middle ground is there?
Nevermind.
Goodnight to all.
Still bowing out of this one as it's never-ending isn't it?
None of us are right or wrong and think all of us are doing what we honestly think is best for our children, and that's all we can do.

i was saying that I didnt know any bf babies who had learnt how to settle themselves without anything at all

GiantKate - My DD slept for 12 hr nights from 6 months without any CC or similar. She'd been doing 11-7ish for some time before that. She was bf to sleep until she was 9 months and is still bf before bed at 16 months. When she got to 9 months she stopped falling to sleep at the breast but seemed OK to go down sleepy and drop off soon afterwards. Now she'll chat to her teddy before going off. I know I'm very lucky but I don't think she's that unusual, I know people who've had similar experiences. Thi style of parenting doesn't necessarily mean being a martyr!

ARgh - can never get italics to work - that's supposed to be a quotation from Giantkate a couple of pages back