Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

[Neenztwinz]

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

here in Scandinavia it doesn't feel like a pressure as such to go back to work but the system enables it rather well. You have the right to a year with (relatively generous) state pay, which can be shared between the parents. my dh will take 3 months of leave while i return to work part-time.

in addition, the nursery system has a set fee (about 300 pounds a month) and although there is a variety to choose from, the standards are generally quite high. alternatives include private daycare which is subsided by the state so its the same cost as the nursery.

i guess when the system if a bit more fair, then it is easier to make truly feminist choices.

I would be very surprised though if it were indeed the case that in france women are expected to work full time in such a widespread way as you describe... surely that's the case in some circles, but not others? And as giant says, I agree that it's a matter of striving towards parental choice. Also, I agree that in couples there are complementary roles that partners take on, but in my opinion these can't be predetermined based on gender. I.e. I can imagine a situation (in a different world...) where a father stays at home or works part-time, while mother makes more money. Or there are 2 partners of the same sex, sharing responsibility for the children. Or a mother taking on more of the feeding responsibility and the father taking on responsibility for other areas (and not just lip service, but true responsibility). My problem is when these complementary roles are pre-judged, pre-determined, pre-decided based on a very conservative model of 'mother at home / father at work'. That can work perfectly well if both partners want it... but is it always the best scenario for everyone, I wonder?

Oh and also, being expected to work full time is often even more of a burden for women, due to inadequate child-care, lack of support from men & society etc. What tinseljuice describes sounds like heaven to me...much closer to true parental choice & state support for parenthood.

Interesting again how far we've moved from the CC disucssion I feel slightly guilty about this!!

Maria2007 - the expectation that women should work is due not just to cultural attitudes but also to legislation (which is of course also a product of culture).

For example, the legislative context of marriage and divorce protects women financially (both within marriage, after divorce and in widowhood) much less well than English law. So women "need" to work much more than they do in England.

btw, I don't think "we" (ie developed societies) are striving for anything very much anymore in the SAHM/WOHM debate. I think we have already reached nirvana in the equality stakes and are at the tweaking stage (hence the great interest in comparing practise in different countries).

We have already reached nirvana in the equality stakes & are at the tweaking stage? not sure if that's the case at all actually... I'm sure many women, who tend to have far more responsibility for their share of housework / childcare than their partners would disagree with this statement. It's true though that things in developed societies are much better in this area than they used to, but there's definitely much more to be done, involving men's bigger participation in childcare.

Anna - surely you dont believe that and are just provoking debate? If only we just needed tweaking - i think in actual terms we have gone backwards rather than forwards tbh in a number of ways.

my dp is seen as completely barmy at his work for requesting flexible working - when women at his work have asked it has been granted but he is the first man to have 'allowed'.

Until childcare (and indeed caring) full stop is seen as an important role - one of the most important roles - then men (and society) will continue to feel it is beneath them. Its chicken and egg - is it undervalued because it is womens work or because women do it?

nirvana

even here, women don't get paid as much as men so your choices are weighted.

far from nirvana, when there is not even a level playing field.

Oh yeah, a very equal society we live in. Bollocks. If that were the case then why am I not getting National insurance contributions whilst I stay at home and look after ds full time? Let's face it, society will never be fair to mothers or stay at home dads.

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totally agree pitchounette...

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Is this relevant to CC?

I mean this seriously because I think it is linked to some women's need for it!

Pitchounette, totally agree too... In fact, I think it's a privilege & a luxury for men to be able to be involved deepely in the day to day care of their child (not that all men see it that way of course!) Their relationship with their child becomes so much richer as a result. The problem is that (as giant said) most men are seen as completely strange when they reqiure flexible / part-time work, perhaps even as 'not man enough'... I know in my circle of friends, where hands-on dads are the norm,it's still women who bear the biggest burden. And lots of men I know would love to be able to do more if society / work was more open to something like that happening.

My male friend got in trouble for not replying to work emails while he was on paternity leave.

Many if my friends OH's don't take all or any of their paternity leave because it would look bad at work.

well, starlight, maybe.

i know that here demand feeding is strongly encouraged by HV and doctors whereas i see the routine feeding as more "british" (gross generalisations of course). Maybe its because many women do take the full year of maternity leave here, or the best part of it so there is less need to get on a schedule that fits in with parents working life.

Hmm, so CC is 'usually' embarked on by routiners?

pitchounette, so in that respect it sounds as if things in france and not at all helpful when it comes to parenthood... Sounds a bit like greece to be honest (where I'm originally from). There too, being a civil servant is probably the only kind of job where you can expect to have good hours & good paid leave & a decent amount of holidays.

Starlight: I agree, of course more support in parenting would mean less stressed parents, and perhaps less of a need to choose CC as a method of dealing with sleep problems early on. Of course, if a woman has no maternity leave apart from a few weeks, no family support, & needs to get back to work asap, then what can she do, she needs to get sleeping sooner rather than later! I say early on... because there are some sleep problems that do become entrenched & (as has been discussed earlier in the thread) lead to few possible solutions apart from CC

Pitchounette - I don't disagree with any of the reasons you give for women working in France.

The one reason I gave was preceded with "for example"...

Maria2007 - if you want to be a working mother, I think France is quite a good place to be - there is lots of cheap childcare (albeit of largely indifferent quality) for example. I don't think it is like Greece at all.

You mean that in greece childcare (or good childcare) is expensive? yes that's true. Do you mean something more general about not being like greece? I was referring to Pitchounette's talking about civil cervants having good hours etc being like Greece.

I mean that in general I don't get the impression that there is the same sort of institutionalised structure to support working women in Greece that there is in France.

Civil servants all over the place get good deals on working hours, it seems to me.