Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

[Neenztwinz]

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

Really? Gosh it must be a nightmare, hordes of parents leaving the workplace at random hrs?

Ok then, well that is French creches for you. I would not use a French creche, just like I won't use a 'bad' nursery in the UK.

LOL @ blueshoes' alter-ego who would use a French crèche, hopping on the Eurostar to deliver her DC to Paris!

Yeah: that sounds nightmarish - I can understand the nursery needing sick kids to go home, but non-sleeping ones? Eeek. The collective pressure to get your kids sleeping in France must be immense!

your nursery sounds lovely my experience with them - though not terrible- is not quite as good. 8 weeks? wow - I think we got 3 days...

You're dead right about the distractions of a nursery though - babies love to see other babies and children - and indeed any other people apart from their main carer which leads back to what someone said earlier about communal care.

Strangely enough, they don't seem to mind children being ill in the crèches - the crèches seem to have regular physio appointments for babies with bronchiolitis on site.

Anyway, this has been a hot topic for a few (non-French) mothers at the school gates this past week or so who are stuck because they breastfed/didn't stick their babies in a standard routine from birth and now find that the crèche expects them to do this and they don't know how/aren't at all convinced this is what they want.

anna - will they potty train or is that too much work for them as well? bizarre...

sounds like theres a business opportunity in paris everyone...

I don't know what the crèches do about potty training, but again, French children seem to be trained early. I certainly felt the disapproving look of the paediatrician when we showed up at DD's 2-year old check with her still in a nappy. Not that I cared, and I left her in a nappy until she started school and just stuck her in pants for the morning and it was all fine, really.

You are shattering all my beliefs in French institutions (typical feel of deference an Italian has towards france emoticon). They sound crap!

giantasantasacks - but where would you get the staff? Remember, they have all been brainwashed trained to think that routine/meeting developmental milestones to a centrally-determined timetable is the right thing for a child's welfare.

Thanks, giantsacks, I am very very pleased with my dcs' nursery. And my dcs are too, I hope . The 8-week settling in period was because my ds would be starting ft. Otherwise I think it would be shorter. I will admit that free childcare over 8 weeks (about 2-3x3 hours a week) was fantastic!

Franca - only Northern Italians, surely? Izzit coz you wuz invaded by Boney?

I must say: all this discussion of good nurseries is making me feel increasingly comfortable with the idea. I was feeling a certain amount of Gerhardt induced anxiety about sending DD to one, and her sleeping was a big issue for me.

My neighbour is co-director of our municipal crèche (I'm in France, too) and from what I hear her and parents say, things are very different to Paris crèches as described by Anna.

The mothers I've spoken to are full of praise about the way the crèche adapts to the children's sleep patterns, allowing them to go off to sleep in their own time and not waking them up at a fixed hour. That may be specific to our town, which has a renonwned mother-friendly maternity hospital and is fairly pro-child in general, but not all French crèches are inhumane and phone parents because their babies aren't sleeping.

As Anna pointed out, some of these are very tiny babies, due to the inflexible nature of French maternity leave (for the 1st 2 kids it's 16 wks in total, usually 6 wks before birth and 10 after). I believe that is due to change in a few years' time, when France will have to adapt to recent EU legislation allowing longer maternity leave.

Not really about CC, but there you go. FWIW, we saw a paediatrician here who refused to accept that DS had reflux and insisted that CC was the answer to his poor sleep habits (he was 4 months old). She claimed that you could give her any baby for the weekend and she'd "train" it to sleep properly.

Anna, I believe this mindset of instilling routine and conformism continues from creche into school in France? It is difficult if the whole culture of raising children is different from yours. I know a born-and-bred Parisian professional couple who managed to find a very good nanny/nounou (or two), paid her over the odds to ensure she provide enlightened childcare to their 2 dds. Could your friends consider the same? I guess they could shadow the nanny for a while just to make sure she was of the nurturing mould.

Erm, that'll be renowned, rather than renonwned, obviously.

Message withdrawn

What did you do, AuldAlliance? (wrt paediatrician, I mean).

AuldAlliance, I am relieved to read of your description of French creches. Yours sound really nice.

AA - Actually, my (British) cousin and his French wife use a crèche in the 6th arrondissement that they are very happy with - they put their first daughter in it when she was a year, after a disastrous nounou experience, and their son there at 2 months.

However, in the summer they take the children out of the crèche after the first summer's experience when most of the local crèches closed for most of the two months and the remaining children were regroupés (?Eng) in a single crèche a week or fortnight at a time. My cousin and his wife were not at all impressed with the other municipal crèches they saw in that time.

(Penthe, yes I think you mentioned your dh being Italian on the thread where we bonded on nanni moretti. Who is big in france, apparently)

blueshoes - if you have oodles of cash, you can import a nanny from wherever you want.

Getting a crèche place in Paris is dependent on either not having much money and/or having "connections" at the town hall. But usually families who can afford a reasonable nounou would be totally unable to get crèche place here. The alternative for dissatisfied crèche users (in Paris) is an child minder or a cheap nounou...

Pitchounette - thanks for your post .

[God bless NM! Recently saw Caos Calmo (sp?) ]

Sorry to keep hijacking thread, OP