Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

[Neenztwinz]

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

"What I really want to do is not have any food but stay up and have chocolate and not go to bed." DS, 3.

No chance. Even on a bad telly night like this one.

I'm not sure why you think that's mean.
Better than fighting with them to get them to sleep at a time that they are just not ready to go.
They wake up, get changed, feed and go back to sleep when they are ready.

It wasn't a joke! What's wrong with sleeping on the go if the child can do it easily?

I'm talking about pre-school however, I should imagine that they would get exhausted at school and ask to go to bed earlier.

DD started preschool this year and still doesn't have anything to do with sleep before 9 PM. And she hasn't slept during the day since the age of 1.8 or so.

barnsleybelle - Sorry, I confused you with someone else. I actually agree with most of what you said on this thread.

I think the OP is a star, she's been brilliant under the rude and unwarranted attacks of some on here

I think it's astonishing that people feel it's permissible to attack someone who's into routines/cc in such venomous terms when, say, you get someone on who doesn't want to bf, everyone pussyfoots around saying "well, it's up to you, maybe you should give it a go but in the end a happy mum is the most important thing." Which I agree with, btw, just don't understand why this etiquette goes out of the window on the cc debate

FWIW, the OP is clearly doing what works for her. CC (to get an overtired baby off to sleep) and a strict routine worked brilliantly for my dd1, attempts with dd2 were disastrous, as a totally different sort of child so I binned them. Parents different. Babies different. If you love them they will end up fine.

coteDazur... . Thought maybe you had mixed me up!
Juule... but thats the whole idea of what is usually very short term cc.. You don't have to fight with them to go to sleep when they don't want to.
DS is 6 now and if i let him go to bed when he wanted it would be very late, he would wait til he was exhausted and then be tired at school..
He has a school night bed time of 7.30pm and is always asleep within 15 mins. He wakes nicely at 7-7.30am the next morning fresh and ready for the school day. Weekends are more flexible.

"but thats the whole idea of what is usually very short term cc.. You don't have to fight with them to go to sleep when they don't want to."

I don't think I understand this statement.

I'm also not sure of the relevance of school-age children on this thread.

juju I can't see much attacking of the OP personally. I think this has been a fairly tame thread with quite a lot of conceding.

Are you trying to rev it up a level?

my reference to school age children was in response to starlight who suggests that pre schools should be allowed to go to bed when they want and that at school age they would "ask to go to bed earlier".

To be honest i've just re-read my statement and it doesn't make sense to me either! .

i know what i want to say but can't seem to find the words!! (think it's because i have one eye on the tv)

I never did suggest that at all barnsley!

I don't think there is anything wrong in kiddies going to bed when they are tired rather than when a parent tells them they should be.

I was declaring my experience as only having been wrt pre-schoolers. When hey get to school age I may alter my opinion. I'm prepared to be open-minded.

Sorry starlight .... I'm trying to watch i'm a celeb whilst on my laptop!!! Very sorry...

starlight To quote your own words :

"Neen You sound very controlling ...
You'd rather their distress than your mild upset to how you like your life to be run. IMO that is cruel"

I thought that was a pretty personal attack and the OP responded with great dignity. There are a few others similar plus then individual posters having a go at each other . But of course I'm not trying to crank it up, why on earth would I do that? It's already cranked enough!

jujumaman Have you read the thread? Taking isolated lines out of whole posts and indeed whole threads cannot indicate the overall tone!

The reason I mentioned school-age children was out of genuine curiosity as to what people who feel that children can choose their own bedtime do when they reach school. Out of personal experience being a yr1 teacher, all the children I have encountered who choose their own bedtime when at school, go to bed far too late and are tired and disruptive the next day.

@StarlightAssumptions

You said that babies don't have clocks and don't know what time it is, somewhere back in the mists of time...

When I was pg with DD she used to suddenly start kicking after a long period of no movements at EXACTLY 4pm. It was so weird. I work in a newsroom, so when I'm at work I always know the exact time and this was uncanny. She was like my clock. Some days when I'd be concentrating really hard I'd suddenly get a kick and think "oh, must be 4" and look at the clock - 16.00 doo doo doo doo

I think the people claiming that routines mean certain inflexibilities are right. I missed the whole evening part of my brother's wedding in September because I had to take DD to bed and lie in a darkened hotel room watching the TV while she slept. I know how crazy that sounds but the previous couple of hours where I kept trying to soothe an increasingly fractious and cross baby were so unpleasant that I wasn't having a good time.

But then when I hear people talking about getting up 5 times a night with a baby, that sounds crazy too. But people do it because they love their baby and that's the baby they have - the one that wakes many times in the night and needs someone to come and comfort them.

If we didn't have kids we wouldn't be getting up 5 times a night, or trying to be home so the baby can sleep, or deciding to start a journey when the eyes start being rubbed despite the fact that we will arrive early, or rushing home from the pub to be there when a feed is likely to be demanded, or pushing the pram around in circles because the baby gets mad in stationary vehicles, or whatever other, basically crazy, things we do to make our babies happy/meet their needs.

I'm pretty sure all of us are putting our babies first and trying understand them so we can respond to them and meet their needs, whether we follow parenting methods that use the "baby led" PR or whether we choose ones that market themselves differently, or do what our Mums do or have so many children we know more than any of the so-called experts.

I also think that when you say "oh, I could never do that" you need to remember that the next baby you have might be the one that needs exactly the thing you're against.

Anyway, thanks for the thread, it's been fun.

I don't feel like I have been attacked too much (for MN this thread has been TAME!) and I have taken on board what has been said -that is why I asked the question in the first place. When DD cried last night (cos routine was all out as we'd been away all weekend) I fed her to sleep and then brought her into bed with me when she woke at 12.30. See, I do have a heart.

They both went to bed fine at 7pm tonight cos we stuck to the routine today. It's true it is difficult to remove them from it (on holiday etc) but I wouldn't change it. I have had a lovely evening wrapping Christmas presents.

Amen, skidoodle.

Neenz, your household sounds harmonious to me, particularly with twins.

Out of interest, pudding25, how did you as a Year 1 teacher know which students were choosing their own bedtime? Do you ask the parents and if so, did you ask ALL parents, whether or not their children were tired during class or not?

It usually comes up in conversation with the parents at some point. Whether it is a disruptive child and there is ongoing conversation with the parents or just the parents having general conversations with me throughout the year. You are right, I have not discussed bedtimes with 30 parents in the class every yr so there may be somebody who chooses their own bedtime and who is not tired the next day. However, I would say that would be unusual -unusual that they would noy be tired the next day if going to bed so late on a regular basis.

I do think it is very different for pre school children and school age children. Pre school children/babies can go to bed later if that suits them and their families but they ca sleep in later/catch up on sleep during the day. When you go to school, you can't sleep in during the week or nap during the day.

No but you can catch up at weekends or maybe have an early night.

My reception-age dd goes to sleep later than I would like. That is because her nursery-age brother goes to bed late and she cannot sleep before he does. Those 2 monkeys!

The teacher has mentioned that dd is tired towards the end of class - but not disruptive, just tired. Fair enough - I told her I was working on dd's bedtime. But then dd comes home, gets second wind and plays like a dervish until 8:30pm! I think she is just bored towards the end of the school day and so the tiredness comes out. But honestly, if she was REALLY tired, she would crash out when she comes home - which she has on other occasions but generally does not on a school day.

Other children who go to bed early-ish (say 6 or 7 pm) are wilting by that time. Not my dcs, no siree.

Same with adults. They say they are tired at work but then somehow find the energy to go out for a few drinks in the evening?

I won't ever be convinced that school-age children can choose their own bedtime. And as for sleeping in the car on the way...

My twins slept all night and I feel wonderful and refreshed this morning - c'mon, admit it, you're jealous!

Neenz, it will be interesting to see if your twins routine changes as they get older and go through teething/night terrors/potty training.

neenz, I am happy to admit I am jealous. But didn't you say your twins wake up during the night? Us parents of non-sleepers do occasionally luck out as well - as I did with ds last night . It is the cold mornings that do it.