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Original poster

Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

1000 replies

Neenztwinz · 28/11/2008 19:24

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

OP posts:
giantkatestacks · 01/12/2008 11:27

on purpose...sorry

giantkatestacks · 01/12/2008 11:28

and - gives up...

Anna8888 · 01/12/2008 11:33

There are lots of benefits to fixed meal times, I agree. I am flexible on the content of meals but not particularly on timing as when children's digestion gets out of sync they tend to be miserable and to sleep badly.

abraid · 01/12/2008 12:10

'How do you KNOW that they are tired'

A different pattern of crying. Rubbing their eyes. Reaching out for their comforter (an old blanket, in the case of my daughter).

blueshoes · 01/12/2008 12:18

Not all babies have those signs of tiredness. For mine, they just get more and more wound up until they are practically tantrumming. Neither were my babies the sort to fall asleep from drowsy in the cot. Why? They never got drowsy. Just went straight to frantic. Not that they would be put down in the cot EVER. When little, they either had to be nursed down or wheeled to sleep in the buggy, if they would let me.

Different babies. Don't presume.

Original poster
Neenztwinz · 01/12/2008 12:41

I wonder then, Blueshoes, whether your children would benefit from a clock-based schedule, so they don't get to the frantic, tantrumming stage?

You say they 'had' to be nursed down, but I think because you were happy to nurse them down (which is fine: your babies, your decision) meant they never learned any other way.

Ooh, love that this thread has turned into a routine discussion!

OP posts:
blueshoes · 01/12/2008 12:50

neenz, I knew someone would ask about putting them down at set times before they got frantic. Believe me, you are preaching to the converted. Problem is, my children don't get it. They don't want to sleep - battling sleep is their speciality. So to do this, it would mean CC. Which I don't want to do because they are rather determined personalities who can cry for hours. Why do I want to break their will? They will get there in time. And dd has - still likes a cuddle before she goes down though - ahhhh, my cuddly high-spirited children.

blueshoes · 01/12/2008 12:54

FWIW, I don't particularly like talking about my dcs' sleep habits. I am reconciled with them as their parent. And I love them to bits.

I just wanted to point out to posters who imply that imposing a sleep routine is somehow easy for all children. I also want to point out there are alternative and gentler ways to achieve sleep harmony which can work for the whole family.

abraid · 01/12/2008 13:13

I didn't 'presume'. I answered a question about how I knew whether my baby was tired.

juuule · 01/12/2008 13:13

"You say they 'had' to be nursed down, but I think because you were happy to nurse them down ...... meant they never learned any other way."

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude but I really think that you don't have a clue. Some of mine would only be nursed down. Not all, just some. Sometimes it's not that you are particularly happy to do this. Sometimes it's that that is the only way unless you want to leave your baby/toddler screaming it's lungs out until it passes out from exhaustion.

blueshoes · 01/12/2008 13:18

sorry, abraid, I did not direct the 'presume' comment at you though I can see how you read it that way.

Thanks, juuule. That is indeed how I feel about nursing down and why I do it.

abraid · 01/12/2008 13:20

blueshoes.

It's good that this thread is still so civil. Previous similar discussions have become...heated.

HSMM · 01/12/2008 13:31

My DD kept crying/calling approx every half hour at bed time and I was turning into a wreck. I didn't have the heart to leave her to cry, so I tried going into the bedroom every 15 mins when she first went to bed, stroking her back and saying "good girl" and then leaving (even if she was asleep). I stopped when I went to bed. She soon stopped being wide awake every half hour and settled to only waking once in the night, when I went in and did the stroking and soft voice - which helped her get straight back to sleep. Worked for me ... but might not work for everyone.

Original poster
Neenztwinz · 01/12/2008 14:37

Juule, it's a bit unfair to say I don't have a clue, I do have two children so I think I have learned something. I do accept though that I may be wrong about nursing down .

Completely respect your decision not to use CC on your kids blueshoes. I don;t think I have ever had to listen to mine cry for more than 30 mins and even that is tough.

I was thinking today about CC and whether babies 'learn not to cry'. I can see why people think this, but then if they have learned not to cry, then why do they ever cry? CC can't have taught my kids not to bother crying because they still do sometimes.

OP posts:
mrsgboring · 01/12/2008 16:13

giantkatestacks it's great if you can use a buggy / carseat / strange bed to provide naps at appropriate times on holiday (I used a crafty breastfeed and a sling or carride).

BUT I have three friends whose DCs just absolutely wouldn't sleep anywhere other than their bed, post sleep training. We'd previously done things together and the DCs had slept as and when but now when we tried it - even in a travel cot in my darkened spare room the screams were heartrending to hear. It's a potential downside to CC.

So next time round (if this baby is the same as DS ) when the HV says "BF to sleep? Are you mad?" I will counter "Settle to sleep in own bed are YOU MAD? I'm not taking DS two or three times a day so cotbound baby can have a nap. [Actually, my HV won't say anything of the sort, probably just "who are you?" because I'm not going to see her.]

Of course, it's not always the case that a sleeptrained DC will leave you chained to a cot and a routine, but equally it's not always the case that a BF to sleep child will never be able to be left and will never sleep on his/her own. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.

CoteDAzur · 01/12/2008 17:08

at "You need to get 8 hours somewhere in 24. They don't have to be consecutive"

Err, yes, they do.

StarlightAssumptionMcKenzie · 01/12/2008 17:10

They're not in Spain!

CoteDAzur · 01/12/2008 17:19

barnsleybelle - I don't know why you are speaking for Oonagh, but anyway...

"I never said there was literature"

Good. So I was correct in my understanding that Oonagh (and you?) just made up the theory that a child who needs his mother to resettle every time he wakes up "sounds like he can rely on her and has a good attachment" "I see it as being secure and that he trusts his mother".

"a baby "screaming" in the night because mummy isn't there makes me form the opinion that the baby feels insecure when mummy is not there"

That is almost exactly the opposite of what you are supposed to be defending, as Oonagh said a baby who cries for mummy in the night must be really secure since he trusts his mother to show up whenever he cries.

I wasn't me who described this hypothetical situation, but I take exception to baseless accusations of having caused my child to be insecure, thinking she can't rely on me, and not having "good attachment", just because I got her to sleep through the night by stopping night feeds.

CoteDAzur · 01/12/2008 17:20

In Spain, those extra snoozing hours of Siesta are considered extra, not to be subtracted from the 8 consecutive hours of night sleep.

barnsleybelle · 01/12/2008 17:46

CoteDazur... I'm not sure what you mean about me talking for oonagh... I have never said anything about a the good attachment situ re needing mum to settle in the night.
If i remember rightly oonagh and i have opposite views on this thread. I did have a large wine last night so maybe i'm mixed up?????

OonaghBhuna · 01/12/2008 18:05

Cotedazure- My comment was about BBs sil it was a comment relevant to her situation and nobody elses. You are taking my comment out of context and coming up with all types of insinuations to a response. Like most people on this thread I have made a comment that is not supported by scientific theory yet you are picking on me.I find your tone quite aggressive and as far as I can see this thread has moved on quite alot since last night.

If you want to know more about attachment theory I would recommend that you read John Bowlby and Donald Winnicott.

pudding25 · 01/12/2008 18:17

I have a question for those of you who let your children sleep whenever they want and choose their own bedtimes -What do you do when they start school? Do you still let them choose their own bedtime, even if it is, say 10pm?

giantkatestacks · 01/12/2008 18:28

pudding I tried to ask this a long time ago:

'If at a certain point they need to get up at 7 to be out of the house quite early what happens if they have gone to bed later?'

and was told:

'Surely you just transfer the asleep to their mode of transport, or change and feed them and the fall asleep again on the go!'

which I wasnt sure if it was a joke or not. I hope it was cos otherwise I see it as really quite mean if the alternative is just going to bed a bit earlier. And of course its not relevant for school age children anyway.

mrsgboring · 01/12/2008 18:30

Anna888 did say that her DD naturally changed her sleep pattern when she started preschool, so there is someone on here who's done this.

We have bedtimes though, so question not relevant to me.

giantkatestacks · 01/12/2008 18:33

and how would I watch my boxset of The Wire more importantly if both dcs are up? Disaster

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