Ok. A thought from my other thread. Which would you prefer. An opinionated child who knows their own mind and questions everything or one that accepts everything they are told without question?

[AvenaLife]

I'd like to know how children that question everything are viewed please. ds is like this, I'm trying to stop this but after my last thread I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. Is it such a problem or am I making it a problem?

TIA

No, that's ok. He's lovely to me, he's really caring, he made (or tried to make) me a sandwich last night because he thought I looked hungry. He gets really upset if I tease him, even when it's a joke. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them. I would have liked him to have play therapy after but I couldn't get a referral. He can be really sensitive and get upset really easily so it's hard knowing what to do.

sorry Avena. genuine apologies !
I shall duck out. I think I am coming across as harsh when it is my issue really.
I just see a lot of kids like my DS whose lives contract because their parents want the world to bend around the child when the grim truth is that children need to have a base line complaince before life becomes pleasant.
Some of Ds1's friends are highly gifted but work with the school to find ways to express their individuality. I am sure your son will find a way to do that too.
x

He doesn't have to live by as many rules at home though. At school, they have to have a well-ordered community for the sake of everyone. All the children deserve an equal share of the teacher's time, including those who are very quiet. If the teacher is spending a disproportionate amount of time with your child, someone else may be missing out.

You are just taking his word that he is being treated unfairly vs the other boys. Children find it very difficult to make these kind of assessments.

Every lesson has a set of objectives that have to be met by the end of the lesson. The teacher will plan a well-paced lesson that meets these objectives. If the lesson is stalled by your child, then they will get behind and perhaps have to miss out on some fun and enriching activities. The other children will find the stops tedious too.

From what you have said, it seems that your son needs a very firm and consistent set of behaviour targets - including and especially from you. If he really doesn't get it when the teacher gives him an instruction, he needs to just obey and then take up his objection outside the lesson.

I would suggest that you are completely open with the school about your son's difficulties, and ask them to put procedures in place to help your son - such as target cards for behaviour in lessons, and a mentoring session at the end of each day so that he have an opportunity to challenge instructions. A diary for him to record his feelings at the time may be helpful also - he could go through that with his school mentor and wih you on a daily or weekly basis. It is vital that he learns that there is a time and a place for these questions, and it is totally not appropriate to challenge a teacher in public in a lesson. You seriously need to reinforce that at home. You also need to know that you are all on the same side - school is not the enemy.

Shesells, ds is now 9! It can be so draining sometimes.

Pagwatch. I'm not making excuses for him, I just thought a bit of background might be useful. I can't change what has happened to him but I can help him adjust and change himself. He does see how difficult his problem makes my life but it's always after. He's always remorceful but it's the same thing "I didn't realise I was being rude". He does grasp the concepts when you talk to him, he knows it's rude and he shouldn't but it's no use when he starts because it all goes out of the window. I tell him to stop, which he does most of the time but at school they just tell him to shut up, which has made things worse. It doesn't sound harsh, I'm trying to make sure he doesn't have a problem. It's just that the way he is with me and the way he is with other people are completely different.

Squeeky. I'm not taking his word, he's a child and the truth can often become extended. When he tells me what's been happening, when other children tell their parents and they tell me, when I hear it for myself then I know that there's a problem. He and another child were thrown off a club last term for laughing at a child being silly. The silly child was allowed to stay, ds's friend was allowed to go back the following week, ds was not. He doesn't command the teacher's attention, he's quiet in class, puts his hand up to ask questions and gets on with his work. He's aware that it doesn't make friends when someone disrupts the class. His class teacher has never had a problem with ds. He's told me this.
He does however, have a mistrust when he's been told off. There was a child in his own school who would make up things to get him and other children into trouble. His class teacher knew all about this child so would listen to ds and talk to the other children who were around to find out if the problem had really happened. Other teachers wouldn't do this and would assume ds had done something.

I'm sorry, Avena, but not a lot of what you have said here adds up.

Please, for the sake of your son, support his new school, and reinforce good behaviour at home. Never, ever run the school down, or make excuses for the actions of his teachers.

If he goes on like this, I fear that he will either be bullied or completely ostracised (which is a form of bullying, of course). He needs to learn to be political, and young children are able to do this. Say the right words at the right time - it will do him wonders when he is an adult.

When you choose a prep school education, the discipline and conforming really is part of the package. Reckless self-expression really does not go in the public school tradition.

Thankyou

A mixture of both is healthy.

Ok. But at the right time, not in class unless they put their hand up, it's relevant and they let others get a word in?

I am a teacher and I love opinionated, curious,questioning children. I certainly don't want them to all sit docilely by, not giving anything! However I would expect them to listen to other views and not disrupt a lesson.I love the quirky children that don't fit the norm.

AvenaLife from your previous threads it is clear your son has experienced difficulties in school but I have to agree with SqueakyPop you aren't doing your son any favours by making excuses for his behaviour in class. Yes he feels he has been treated unfairly but I am sure that other children feel the same and haven't reacted in the same way. I would be looking to do a referral for him as he sounds a very unhappy confused little boy.

Has he ever seen an Ed Psych? It might be worth asking the new school to set up an appt with one.

Thankyou mrz. He is getting better but it's a slow process.

He hasn't seen one. I'll give it a while for him to settle into his new school and will see what they say. They have a SENCO so I'm hoping that she/he'll be able to help. There wasn't support like this availiable previously. He did spend reception in a state school but nothing was picked up then. I've spoken to the head of the new school about him, he doesn't seem to be concerned so I shall leave it a few weeks and go and see him.

Keep the communication with the SENCO open. She will be a good ally for you. If she suggest external agency support, it will probably be worthwhile (but you will have to pay several hundred pounds for the priveledge).

I love to spend just one day without having to answer 80000000 questions from my children.

Has anyone at his previous school suggested CAMHS?

Ok squeakyPop. My best friend's a teacher, she knows ds very well and doesn't think that there's a problem. I shall check though. Thankyou for all your help. I know that I've not probably made sense in most some that I have written, I have a flaming headache and have been sneezing all day so I am very grateful for your patience.

Poor you FairyMum. Ds isn't that bad!

is there such a thing as a child who accepts everything without question?

where can i find said child?

But there obviously is a problem, Avena.

mrz:No one has ever suggested anything. I did ask them if they could refer him to the ed psych, they said he didn't need it. He was far worse then though . I used to work at the hospital and have had unofficial chats with doctors, paediatricians and psychologists but they have never said anything that has made me think the problem is anything serious IYSWIM.

Lol expat!

I know there's a problem, I've asked for help on here before because I didn't want things to carry on, he's improved so much over the past 12 months, it's this one thing that's holding him back.

I don't know your son so I'm basing my opinions purely from what you have written here and on previous threads but as a SENCO I would say there is a problem. Your son has been deeply affected by what he sees as an injustice and he needs support to work that out which is why I asked about CAMHS.

As you can probably guess from my post on your other thread, I would say that your issue is that you think this is an either/or situation.

The ideal, IMO, is "An opinionated child who knows their own mind, questions everything in their own mind, and accepts that they will be told stuff that they might not agree with, and be asked to do stuff that they don't like."

Honestly, I know where you are coming from with injustice. I still clearly remember an english lesson in year 10, when we were asked what we might find on a boy's dressing table. Being silly year 10s, about 5 of us shouted out "condoms", simultaneously. I was sent out of the room, and the other girls were simply told not to encourage me! Unfair? Yes. But, if I hadn't shouted out "condoms", the teacher would not have been able to go after me.

Just because I received a harsher penalty for the same behaviour as others doesn't take away the fact that my behaviour was unacceptable, it just means that my friends got away with it.

Your son needs to learn independence of thought which is satisfied by his knowledge and understanding. It doesn't matter if the teacher agrees with him, or if the whole class understands his point of view. He needs to be satisfied that he understands the topic to the level that he desires.

Also, I would go as far as to say that he doesn't need to have reasons for things to work out if it is fair. He wants reasons. But, he is 9, and at school the adult is the person who decides what happens. He needs to learn this lesson quickly, so that he doesn't have a frustrated school life (as I did).

I do agree with the other posters. In your anxiety to make his learning experience as good as possible, you are excusing bad social skills as being the complication of giftedness. Unless he is autisic savant, or has aspergers, (even then though, he can learn rules for situations with perseverance) he should be able to combine a healthy inquisitive nature with independent thought and a knowledge of when to do as he is told without question.

Aaarrggghhh, in answer to the OP only (and not having seen the original thread), I've got one of each, (plus another one) and both can be a nightmare at times.