Ok. A thought from my other thread. Which would you prefer. An opinionated child who knows their own mind and questions everything or one that accepts everything they are told without question?

[AvenaLife]

I'd like to know how children that question everything are viewed please. ds is like this, I'm trying to stop this but after my last thread I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. Is it such a problem or am I making it a problem?

TIA

Boarding school!

I don't know why I'm bothering then.

opinionated annoys me

I'll take docile any day

and good mannered, polite and thoughtful does not = doughy

it equals a child who will probably grow up to be a great friend and parent

opinionated is a complete PITA IMO

no - respect and manners etc does not go out the window once they reach puberty.
And it greatly irritaes me when people assume it does !
grrrr

Neither clearly
Sorry but it's a daft question
Both have their problems but the opinionated one is probably a PITA for teachers (and the rest of the children in the class who also have a right to learn)

Not what you wanted to hear sorry

no child 'knows their own mind' in every respect

all children need guidance, even in a very subtle hands-off way

I'm not sure you really don't have a choice what type of child you end up with. I know you'll say it's down to parenting but I'm not so sure it is. You can set boundaries all you want but some children have a life aim to test them constantly. I don't see how this can be the parents's fault. It's not due to the parents that they have an opinionated child. All the guidance and discipline I've given to ds works in some ways, others it doesn't. Maybe this is what I've been given and I have to get on with it rather then battle against it all the time. I'm now raising my white flag.

Opinionated is probably a PITA for ds's teacher, which is why I'm always buying the poor bloke bottles of wine! He didn't seem to mind ds though. I think some people mind, some don't it's all down to personality.

Page, I'd like to meet some polite, helpful teenagers that are in groups. I'm not saying all of them are like this, I've met a few though.

I dont think anyone minds 'opinionated' do they?

its how you express that opinion which is a pita or not

eg constantly interrupting is not opinionated, it is rude

I know plenty of polite, helpful teenagers btw

My DD1 was a very 'good' child at home accepted decisions, didn't answer back was never rude. She was an absolute joy to parent and very easy if I am honest. However, something changed when she started school. She continued to be the same child at home but began asking loads of questions sometimes inappropriately at school and sometimes telling the teachers when they had made a mistake with their spelling or in numeracy. In my mind I felt this was a good thing because she showed she was listening and paying attention but the teachers ended up getting annoyed with her 'attitude' as they referred to it. Now at 8 she constantly questions everything has an answer for everything and rarely accepts a decision without a lengthy discussion first. Definitely prefer the first easier option if I am honest but obviously you accept your child as they are and just hope she will conform enough to get on at school.

bloody hell

at 8 my dd is allowed to have all the opinions she wants but most of the time what I say goes

no 'lengthy discussions' here

ds used to correct the teachers, it was only short lived though once I spoke to him about how much it underminds the teachers. There are others in the class who do this though. He's lost his faith in them after being unfairly and over disciplined. He needs justification why he should/shouldn't do something, this is the problem. He needs the reasons so he can work out if something's fair. I'm not sure how to get around this. I can't see any trust there, he'll do things for me without question but he's so suspicious of everyone else. He's over independant and won't let anyone help him. He was pulling faces and moaning at his gran when she was helping him try on a coat for school. He is 9 though so I can see his point but he won't accept help, he see's it as criticism or a telling off. He becomes really defensive, that's when he likes to "discuss".

As a teacher, I do like questioning children - very much - but I prefer them to be focussed and polite (hands-up). I can tell much more about them by the questions they ask rather the questions they answer.

When I have had particularly inquisitive children whose questioning basically disrupts a lesson, I usually limit them to 3 questions, and once they have used them up, they can't have any more. They end up being very thoughtful and selective about their questions.

With my Year 7s and 8s, I have a little post box where they can write down their questions, and I will answer them during the next lesson. That would be in addition to any rule about 3 random oral questions.

As a teacher, I do like questioning children - very much - but I prefer them to be focussed and polite (hands-up). I can tell much more about them by the questions they ask rather the questions they answer.

When I have had particularly inquisitive children whose questioning basically disrupts a lesson, I usually limit them to 3 questions, and once they have used them up, they can't have any more. They end up being very thoughtful and selective about their questions.

With my Year 7s and 8s, I have a little post box where they can write down their questions, and I will answer them during the next lesson. That would be in addition to any rule about 3 random oral questions.

That's a really good idea SqueakyPop.

I do it at home with my 9 year old, who can relentless sometimes. Not always though, just when it get too much for me - I tell her than I am imposing a question limit, and it is all quite light-hearted and a bit of a game.

I often fob her off on her siblings and father. Come to think of it, sometimes I do that at school too - fob them off to other teachers

Lol!
I really don't mind his questions, it's always really interesting the things he likes to discuss. I do mind his lack of trust in people and his need for them to justify why he's been asked/told to do something/not to do something. This is what's causing the problems. He tries to talk his way out of trouble aswell. This is also annoying. I just want him to be quiet when he's being told off and not try to defend himself.

avena
the other thing is that he has empathy. have you tried talking to him for half an hour about ..say..chicken recipes. Or peppering him with questions when he is trying to talk to you.
If you made it teasing and gentle and explained what you are showing him he may get to see from the other persons point of view what it is like to be restricted to someone elses interests and questioned so much.

My friends boy who has aspergers used to talk all the time about dinosaurs. When he did she used to talk to him about recipes she liked cooking. It became a great joke between them but it started to teach him that communication is about both of you - not about one fulfilling the others needs ( even though his is small and it is of course meant to be more about his needs at this age)

Also you said before that he constantly asks you because he doesn't like to / is too lazy too look things up.
You should honestly stop doing this for him. Then perhaps you can encourage him to jot down things that interest him during lessons and raise them with his teacher afterwards. The boys at DS's school do this and get access to the computer rooms to persue any personal interest aspects of their lessons. the teachers often help them.

That seems like a respect for authority problem, Avena (and a distrust).

Does he understand why there has to be school rules, and general manners?

He's good at empathy. With me though. He's good with his friends and smaller children, he's patient and helpful with them. He just has no acceptance of what he's being told.

He can research, he's got plenty of books, access to the internet etc, he prefers not to though. He'll leave everything to the last minute and do the minimum to scrap by. It's a waste of his talents.

SqueakyPop: He does know why there are rules and why good manners are important, I think the problem is that he's been told off so harshly at his old school for little things and he's seen other children do the same or worse and get away with it. He doesn't think adults treat children fairly, I can't seem to change this, no matter how hard I try. I'm hoping the new school is better, they have a consistant discipline procedure and firm rules. He's not to bad at home but I see some of this problem daily.

I should also mention that he's highly giften and has perviously been mistreated by a member of staff at the nursery he attended when he was 3. I reported it to social services, they referred it to Ofsted who gave the nursery a slap on the wrist . Ds said he was hit across the head, he had marks there and his behaviour was really bad. I took him out as soon as he told me. This is probably where his trust problems come from.

I'm afraid life can be very unfair and it is a lesson he has experience before he is emotionally ready to understand. I can see where pagwatch is coming from.If he were my pupil I would be looking to develop his emotional literacy which from your description seems to be underdeveloped (sorry for basing opinion from what you have written which is probably unfair on him)

i have opinionated. very opinionated and headstrong. she is four and a half and knows everything. she can actually come up with very well thought out and reasoned arguments if she really wants something.

i dont mind her being opinionated and asserting herself, im very much a pick your battles parent, so she is just left to get along with it most of the time, her hyperactivity drives me mad.

she has good manners and is alarmingly thoughtfull for a child of her age when she wants to be.

But Avena you can't have it both ways. You can't be able to see that his behaviour is wrong and unacceptable and then make excuses for him.
If he is good at empathy why can you not make him understand that endlessly challenging authority is making life difficult for you ?
If he is very bright then he cannot be so silly as to treat all rules as unfair. If you are clear that he has to ressearch his own questions then you can't just say he can't be bothered.You are feeding his sense of entitlement that if he has an interest then you will spoon feed him with it.
TBH I think you are in danger of over compensating for his bad experiences at school. Does he grasp that he cannot constantly challenge authority or not?
If he does not learn to operate within the 'reasonable' rules of a 'good' school then he will have problems everywhere.

My DS2 has profound ASD and he has had to learn ( through very limited understanding) that at times he has to comply or our lives will contact. It is not being kind to him for me to allow him to think that the world will be quiet for him. Or that when we go out he can buy the next obsessive toy on his list.
I have had to take him into shops to teach him that I will say know. And that he will have to cope with that - because otherwise he will not be able to go inti the world without difficulty.

I love chatty questioning children. He sounds gorgeous. And I am not saying he must change his personality. But he must learn to accept the enviroments in which you wish him to flourish or you are setting him up to fail.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh but you keep with the 'oh yes but..'s' as if he is fine when you are worried enough to start two threads about finding a school to help him

opinionated = great. And as squeakypop showed children who are curious, questioning and opinionated can be managed and can be wonderful members of a class

However wanting adults to justify themselves to you and wanting to talk your way out of trouble, is rude and I'm afraid a child who does this is a pill and a pain in the arse. Sorry; but there's no use saying differently because it's true.