can a 4 month old manipulate you!?

[romysmum]

I am a first time mum, and dd is 4 months old. she is not an easy baby, very whingey and doesnt like to sleep much!! yes I know the 2 go hand in hand!!, but she will only look at a toy or play with something for about 10 mins max before she gets bored and starts whining again, she is the same in her pram, 10 mins into a walk, and she whines. She is very bright (and beautiful!), and is already rolling over. Do you think she could just be frustrated or as my HV said, maybe she is just miserable - very helpful- any suggestions most welcome. Is my giving in any changing her toy/view making things worse?

No I don't think she is manipulating you!

Baby's don't have a long attention span at this age, and if she is whinging then as you say she's probably tired. I would probably make everything as boring as possible in an effort to get her to sleep myself - it sounds like she hasn't quite worked out how to send herself off when she's tired.

sounds normal to me

and not 'miserable' what a cow your hv must be to say siomething like that!

No. She is just a baby. I know people who have tried cranial oesteopathy for babies and swear that it calms colicky or "whingey" (your words, not mine!) babies.

If you think she is in some sort of discomfort it could be worth a try. But really all babies cry alot. It is there only form of communication for goodness sake!

Most important is that you just relax as much as poss. and enjoy your dd - it may not seem like it now, but babyhood passes by in the blink of an eye.

no of course not

your own hormones / feelings can, though

10 mins is pretty good, ds4 is 15 weeks and we get far less

c'est la vie, he'll be grown up n a blink

she could well be bright, ds4 is i think (also rolling), but she's not miserable, just being ababy.

'Is my giving in any changing her toy/view making things worse? ' not at all, it's helping her learn

it can be hard, sometimes when i need the loo or summat I am pulling my hair out but you are doing nothng wrong, its normal and passes when they crawl (when life getsvery interesting indeed!)

sorry pedants "their" only, of course...

Yes, I suppose that a 4 month old could be said to 'manipulate' you by crying for attention when bored/hungry/tired. The question is whether you think that this is a bad thing - I certainly don't! I don't think that you responding to her is making things worse- quite the contrary!

10 minutes sounds to me like a very long time for a 4 month old to play with a toy -I'd be amazed if my 8 month old managed it! She may need a little more input from you while playing, but you can try to combine this with getting other things done if possible. I also found that my ds could get a bit 'swamped' with toys, and sometimes taking a few away was the answer!

Also, don't forget that ordinary household items are much more fun than special baby toys- ds current favourites are a mixing bowl and wooden spoon!
In this weather maybe a trip to the park for a change of scenery for you both would be nice- she can roll about on a picnic blanket and look at leaves/grass etc.

Not sure about the pram rides - I would recommend a sling but at the moment it could get very hot! Worth considering when it's cooler though.
Hope some of this is helpful- I have no suggestions whatsoever for sleep though

If there are any pedants lurking, please don't even look at my earlier post, it will make you cross.

Anyway Romysmum, I don't suppose she's in any way sicky is she? Reflux / Silent reflux can make babies pretty miserable and unwilling to sleep.

So can too much going on, interestingly. They get hyped up, don't sleep and get cranky.

I second the cranial osteopathy, I thought it was pretty good for the DDs.

we took her to cranial ost for colic at 8 weeks, worked a treat! - maybe we should try again! Thanks for your reassurances Im just new to this and don't know what to expect, maybe my expectations are a little high!....Stealth. my hv has no kids!!

Sounds perfectly normal to me - at 4 months they can't sit up, move around or generally do anything much so it stands to reason they'd get a bit bored after 10 minutes of sitting around.

If my HV had called my ds miserable I wouldn't have been overly chuffed.

sounds like a typical 4 month old !

dd had a virus a month ago which dr says may have given secondary lactose intolerance - not tested, going off symptons only, not sure i agree, and she wont take lactose free formula (currently breast fed) so i have cut down on dairy myself to see if it makes a difference...

Hi romysmum,

I do think there are 'easy' and 'difficult' babies - DS is a difficult one! He is just past 5 months and cried and whinge for the first 3 months... He started getting better at about 4 months and at the moment, he is really smiley and responsive. He can still whinge for England some days and especially when things are not going his way and especially if we are stuck at home all day. But overall, it is like a different baby! I find that going out to mummy/toddler groups helped. Ok, he can't 'play' yet but it helps me pass the day and he just likes being in a different environment. He has also gone on a 'play date' with a mummy I met at the baby clinic (now, her baby is EASY with a capital 'E'!), which he loved as he had different toys he could play with etc... And he definitely whinges BIG-TIME if he is overtired. Things will get better and easier as you also learn to figure out what your DD likes and dislikes. My DH and I love our DS and think his 'grumpy' personality is such a hoot! And DON'T LET ANYONE MAKE YOU THINK IT IS DUE TO YOUR PARENTING! It isn't!

Ax

P.S. Whenever I complain about DS crying so much, people always tell me 'Babies cry...' And maybe that's just it!

Try your baby in a sling or wrap - I have both, but for older than a newborn baby I would recommend a Moby wrap - I hired mine from my BFing group here's a Moby Wrap. It's amazing how they really calm down when in a wrap and you can get loads of stuff done at the same time too. I love my Moby! hate it when it needs to be washed. It might help.
x

angel, thanks for that, its hard when every other baby you come across seems happy and content, and mines whining/crying her head off! my friends baby lays happily gurgling on the floor for ages and is also very easy.sleeps from 9pm to 7am!! and has regular naps. Sometimes her grumpiness is amusing! Everytime she sees her grannies she kicks off, amusing to see them trying to placate her (they don't like to be beaten!) but she hasn't given in yet, although they do compare her to another baby in the family which annoys me.
Hannah. Not seen a moby before will look at website, do you need 2 people to get it on, get baby in? def worth a go.

My ds was exactly the same, couldn't put him down for more than a few mins at this age. Looking back, I thinkyes he was frustrated but very very strong willed and just had a BIG presonality.

No she isn't manipulating you, although it sometimes feels that way! She is communicating with you in the only way she can. She sounds like a very clever little girl who is raring to go. My ds didn't like being in the pushchair, car seat or anything other than my arms whilst I walked around with him, he was miserable and whingey and a crap sleeper in the day (which thankfully wasn't the case at night!)

That said, he met all his mile stones early, rolled at 3 months, sat at 5 months (when I could finally put him down to play for 10-15 mins), he clapped and pointed at things he wanted around 8 months which made it easier for me! He didn't crawl til 9 months but he got so much easier once he could move and occupy himself. He took his first steps at 11 months and is now nearly 1.

He's still not the easy bundle of joy that ome people have but he is very loveing, very vocal, very smiley and gnerally a pleasure. He still gets bored easily but it does get easier.

Some babies just don't like being babies I'm afraid! I second Angel's comments, it's deffinitely NOT YOUR PARENTING! Some babies are just more demanding than others!

1O minute attention span seems fairly usual in a baby of this age imo.

I know it seems like every other baby is perfect and yours is Captain Whingey - I remember similar feelings as my ds was a bit difficult earlier on.

Its worth remembering that their personalities seem to change and develop all the time. From the babies I knew the really placid ones I admired have developed little foibles later down the line with food, napping or whatever. I think the golden lesson is never compare.

I seem to remember 4 months being a time that ds went through a very cuddly phase and also a very disturbed sleep phase - it will all pass!

My baby who was whingey at 4m (cried a lot, had trouble sleeping etc) is now a strapping 2 yr old. She still tantrums at the drop of a hat, but is clever, funny and loves life. An absolute joy!

Hi meandmyjoe I knew you would post on this thread... Can't believe your LO is almost 1. I remember you posting when my DS was so little and your DS was 8 months old. How time flies

romysmum Funny you should mention your in-laws. My DS loves kicking off when they are around as well. And they keep asking him 'What's wrong? what's wrong?' while I grit my teeth and mutter 'Nothing's wrong, he's just a little grumpy wotsit!' LOL. I got pissed with my MIL when the last time she saw him, she said he should learn manners from his supposedly angelic cousin! They don't see the DS I see - the one that reaches out for my hair intently (before giving it a quick yank!), who laughs like mad when I dance crazily to the music while he is in his jumperoo. I can see him getting more and more animated and smiley as the days go by so don't worry, it will get better!

' its hard when every other baby you come across seems happy and content'

do remember that a baby can seem very different to how it is- mine is like the baby descrbed before; he seems easy to everyone- someone commented today he never cries- that's because I rather exhaustedly gave up on battling ages ago, and just cart him everywhere in my arms now- even to the loo!

At best, we only get a snapshot of others!

you sound like you are exactly describing my DS when he was about the same age. i felt like the worst mum in the world as DS was never content for more than 5-10mins and i dreaded night-time as he woke every 2-3hrs. everyone told me about their baby who was "sleeping through" already, had regular naps etc etc.

It does get better I promise you. once DS reached about 5months he seems to be able to settle himself better, we were able to establish a loose routine, i started him on solids (don't shoot me for early weaning) and he seemed to develop a personality. Overnight he became a joy to have around.

Please ignore your HV as IM(very limited)E babies are not miserable but are just growing up and going through different phases of development.

re toys - DS was fascinated by empty drinks bottles (500mls) with rice/pasta in them and he could make his own noise.

good luck and keep smiling

your baby sounds very bright and inquisitive. some babies are far more easygoing. mine wasn't and yours doesn't sound like it either.

10 mins is a long time for a small baby.

your hv is talking bollocks.

I don't think it is lactose intolerance. your gp doesn't sound like he knows enough about bfing either.

If you can get her in a wrap sling, ring sling, mei tai etc and just carry her around the house when doing your chores it will entertain her.

if you search my name with wrap sling, ring sling mei tai etc, lots of posts will come up.

IMO A four month old absolutely cannot manipulate you. They haven't got the complex emotional make up yet needed and I don't think they're capable until much much older. Maybe she just wants to be close to you. Have you tried just popping her in a sling and getting on with other stuff.

My DD was a nightmare unsettled baby. She's much happier now she's a toddler but it was a very very hard first year. She's still a mega whinger.

Find a coping mechanism. Mine was just stop trying to do everything else and concentrate on her, sling, tears, mumsnet, the odd shout to myself and my DH. Try and get as much support as possible and toddler group type places. Being out of the house is good.