4 week old, hysterical crying for 2 hours every evening

[Monsy]

Does anyone have this problem and know what I can do/am doing wrong? My four week old DS sleeps very well at night from about 9pm until 3am (when I feed him, then goes back to sleep until 7am when I feed him again - i am breastfeeding) then settles himself in his moses basket and naps well in the morning, but then from 10.30am for the rest of the day he catnaps no more than 20 mins at a time, by the time of his bath at 5pm he is exhausted. I take him to his room, feed him and he falls asleep on me, so I'm not sure how much he's getting. Then as soon as i put him in his moses basket at 6.30/7pm, he goes into hysterical crying which does not stop until i feed him again at 9pm and he conks out. I have tried expressing and giving him a good 80ml at 6pm which he takes well, but he still cries hysterically at the same time every evening. Is this just a phase of fussy evenings? The problem is that I live in India and its 40 degrees outside so I can't even take him outside for a walk...

Thanks, Monsy

Oh you poor thing. How very exhausting for you and him. At least he is sleeping VERY well at night once he finally settles but 2 hours of crying suggests a very overtired little chap.

Be rest assured that at least for the first 6 weeks all (ok, well most) babies are a bit bonkers and find it hard to sort out their sleep patterns. But with mine (2 daughters) I did try to impose some sort of routine. I emphasise the word try. It's not always possible.

Possible routine as follows . . .

Feed times 7am, 10.30am, 2.30pm, 5pm, 6.30pm, 10.30pm.

Nap times 9am - 10am, 11.30 or 12 until 2 or 2.30pm 4.15 - 5pm.

Then all tucked up in bed at 7pm for a good nights sleep, feed if wakes in night.

I used these times as a kind of guide, especially not letting the baby constantly snack on the breast but establishing a proper few hours between feeds.

This may help you, but I'm sure someone else will be along soon with some marvellous advice.

I also used a rocker for my babies which they LOVED to sleep in, it may help to rock him in the day to help him have a decent daytime nap. Such a shame that the temps are so high as a good long walk with the pram also can help send them off for a snooze.

But be assured that lots and lots of babies - mine included cry like crazy at times, it is awful and leaves you feeling exhausted and helpless but it is normal.

Best of luck x

Sounds like his sleep cycle is only 20 min and he wakes up every time he goes into light sleep. My son did this and I waited it out until he was 7 months and someone suggested I put him on his front... it was miraculous and he had really good long naps from then on.

I do realise this is against SIDS advice but if it's during the day maybe try putting him on his front and keep an eye on him.

And I know you have heard this before, but it does get easier!

sorry, but will disagree with claudia, but a 4wk old baby should not be put on a feeding schedule at this time.

breastfed babies do not 'snack'. This frequent desire to feed, especially in the evening, or 'snacking' as some will call it is an important part of establishing a good milk supply for most mothers. Some mothers have an ample supply from early on and can cope with longer breaks between feeds, even in the early days like this, but most mothers will need stimulation more often than every 3 to 4 hrs. Many women lost their milk supply on a schedule like this. It seems like claudia's schedule does not address any night wakings. Night feeds, at least one a time in the night is important in the early days.

your baby is probably crying a lot in the evening because she needs to be close to you. she is driven by instinct at the moment and she is asking for a biological need to be fulfilled.

For many babies, at 4 wks is far too early to go to bed at a set time: 7pm. it is a normal time when a lot of babies cluster feed.

as far as having trouble napping during the day, let her nap with you, nap on your lap, nap in a baby sling, any way you can let him go longer so that he may not be overtired come the late evening.

good luck, keep posting, and ((hugs)). the early days are tough. lots of mums on here will come along and testify to that.

PS: imo, expressing this early is another chore for a new mum who already has her hands full. been there, done that.

sorry, i see claudia says to feed if wakes at night. still don't recommend a feed schedule though.

here is one example of a baby carrier being worn by one hot daddy.

there are other styles and if you have air conditioning around the house, it is a great way to keep your baby asleep in the pm while still having your hands free.

OMG kiskidee you've made my morning.

I agree with Kiskideesameanoldmother, that expressing can be a step too far, inasmuch as it makes life hard for you.

Also as a new mum you will be bombarded with advice, some of which will chime with you and others will go against the natural grain of your parenting style so feel free to pick and choose what you think will help.

Also agree that the early days are very tough and a pattern will emerge but with some babies a calm, quiet, consistent routine can help. Obviously if your baby is really resistant to that - and he is still very young - then do, as we all do, whatever it takes to keep the young fella happy.

Best wishes

hi monsy, just wanted to offer you my heartfelt sympathies. I have had two colicky babies who screamed all evening and at times I felt I couldn't breathe because of the tension it created.

I don't really have any advice but I wanted to tell you that, IMO, you are not doing ANYTHING wrong. By all means try different things, swaddling, slings etc but I don't believe there is a silver bullet cure for evening crying. It is something that you have to grit your teeth and sit out and try to comfort them as best you can.

I'm not sure whether it will reassure you to hear that both my DDs stopped crying so much at around the 12 week mark, and started to go down at 7 pm at around 4-5 months. I know this must seem miles away for you at the moment but it will come around quickly. In the meantime, be nice to yourself and your partner. IMO it;s very easy to get extrememly ratty with each other in the evening when you're both tired and the noise is deafening.

It does sound very much like colic to me. It will pass. I know it seems like it's been going on forever but quite often babies are just colicky for a few weeks and it resolves spontaneously - DD was like this from 6 weeks to about 9 weeks and then nothing. Good luck.

I agree with Claudia - this may help! It may be that he's not getting enough milk before he drops off in the evening. a Schedule would help make sure he's eating enough and not overtired

Monsy - you are not doing anything wrong! The behaviour you describe is so common. No solutions I'm afraid - just weather the storm. Lots of feeding might help - esp if it's the sucking that comforts him. Also physical contact - maybe massage techniques could help? Don't massage him when he's cross but if you do it during the day when he's cam then it may calm him in the evenings too.

Good luck.

Mine was like this and I posted a similar message 6 weeks ago! She really turned a corner at 6 weeks and started crying a lot less. Before then she was crying every waking moment and I was at the end of my tether. I think it was just the shock of an unfamiliar environment. I found a sling really helped. I just put her in it and walked up and down the street. It does get easier very quickly!!

Thanks to everyone for your advice. In fact, he is already on a schedule very similar to Claudia's and it does seem to suit him well as he doesn't demand food at other times - except after the 6pm feed when I think he'd like to eat solidly until 9pm. I did try that a few times but found it exhausting having him nursing on me for three hours and he was only sucking not taking any milk and when he came off the breast, more crying.

The sling looks great - as does the hot daddy! but sadly I have heard you can't buy them in India, but I am back to the UK in four weeks so will get one then if this crying continues.

My doctor this morning recommended an Indian product called Colic Aid so I am going to try that tonight, as well as your suggestions! Thanks again

if you look at bigmamaslings you will see this type of sling on there. i am sure if you email and ask, she will be willing to give you tips on choosing the right one, she will post it out to you.

i know that the evening cluster feeds are tiring. which is why i found napping in the early afternoon with dd a big help.

also it helps to feed either lying down, watching telly, reading, snacking (me) etc a way of dealing with the long evening cluster feeds.

you are still recovering from birth yourself. try to allow yourself to do nothing but feed your baby. let others do the washing or cooking or let them pile up. don't worry about cleaning the bathrooms, the floors etc.

it does not matter if you think they are not getting much milk. you will be amazed at how much this on/off cluster feeding actually get into a baby.

your milk will be made and drunk pretty much constantly during clusterfeeds so your breasts will never feel like they have any milk in them during these sessions. Actually, the milk that she will be getting during clusterfeeds will be the highest fat milk as the fat content of your milk will not have separated out as it does when you have longer gaps between feeds. This separation is what people refer to as foremilk and hindmilk.

good luck.

ps if you want to try a home made sling first of all, you can get a 5 meter of sari material, 100% cotton on a cotton/linen mix will be the best. Cut it or rather, rip in in half length-wise to make it about 70cm wide by 5 meter long. Now you have 2 home made wrap slings.

the one in the video is a medium weight stretchy cotton (like a medium to heavy t-shirt cotton) which you may be able to find in India in a fabric shop. If you can get your hands on this type of fabric, it works well because unlike 100% cotton, it doesn't need hemming to stop fraying.

Have to say I really really agree with kiskidee, my ds cluster fed a lot at this age and yes, it was really hard and I felt like I would be stuck with it forever - but you can't just leave a 4 week old baby to cry for 2 hours because it is tiring to keep feeding it. You really can't.

If it makes you feel any better, after going through the endless cluster feeding (which went on for more than 2 hours every night and was utterly draining, there was lots of crying too!) my ds, from about 8/9 weeks, settled happily into a bath/song/feed/bed routine and now settles at 7.30-8pm every evening. Doesn't sleep through tho except very occasionally but he's still only 19 weeks.

It will pass I promise. Surely the 2 hours of your lo crying is just as draining on you as cluster feeding?

You are trying to do your best for your baby, it's knackering and the first few weeks are unbelievably hard. Keep going, and if your baby cries keep him near and keep feeding!

So sorry if I sound bossy, just had such a similar experience not long ago.

hth x

wind. Ds had wind every evening, dd is 4 weeks old adn has started with windy evenings this week. They get over it by 12 weeks or even sooner if you are lucky. We just have to jiggle, cuddle her and eat our evening meal one handed

OK, so tonight I will set myself up on the sofa and give him a good long feed if thats what he wants! Thanks so much for all your advice, I will also see if I can get a sling sent out to me.

i would feed on the sofa between 5 and 6.30 or so, then give my ds a bath and few mins of naked play then feed in his room 7 till he fell asleep (around 9). As the weeks went on the feeds got shorter and used to play with him more between, so by 6 months the first breast feed became supper and he was asleep by 7.30 or 8. follow what he wants to do, don't listen to anybody who says you are making a rod for your own back, the endless feeding does not last for ever

i would feefd on demand i was feeding my ds every hour at one stage but if really crying and settles after feed obviously hungry do not scedule feeds at this age feed on demand

My DS was very similar, so I sympathise! Many's the night DH ended up walking around the park at 5am, or standing under the extractor fan in the kitchen...

I don't think much helped, as I recall, but thankfully it doesn't last that long.

hey monsy - how have you been getting on? have been thinking of you as i really remember what it was like for us (not that long ago at all!) x

Thanks Chunkypudding, well, very strangely, the last two nights he has gone down by 7.30/8pm which has been a dream. But now he is not sleeping well at night! Last night it took him an hour to get back to sleep after feeding at 10.30pm and then he woke again at 3.30am and refused to go back to sleep until 8.30am! So as you can imagine I am shattered today. Its now 5.30pm here and he has only slept for 3 hours today - between 8.30am and 10.30am and then he is alseep now (and has been for the last hour). Can he damage himself from lack of sleep? I think I am resigned to let his routine go out the window as I'm not going to wake him now.

He can't damage himself from lack of sleep and at 4 weeks you are very sensible to let his routine go out of the window - because in all honesty it is only for your benefit, not his (not meaning that in a nasty way). He is growing and changing so fast that you will find that any pattern he has developed over a couple of days will change completely and you won't be able to predict it. It's really hard on you and you have my sympathy, but it doesn't last long - it only feels like a loooooong time!