What do you do when your 5 year old point blank says "NO" and refuses

[ALMummy]

to tidy his room, go in the bath, go to bed, come to the dinner table etc.

I am at my wits end. There have been constant tantrums over the past week and anything I ask him to do is met with a point blank refusal followed by a screaming tantrum. I think he is beginning to realise that I cant actually MAKE him do anything. What are your tips for getting your DC to co-operate.

well i am glad you seem to agree with me about the sitting at the table for dinner thing. DD1 was in bed shortly after 6 and didn't wake til 6.15. She is a very happy girl this morning! Maybe she was just too tired to sit at the table and i did her a favour putting her to bed without a big fuss.

love the analogy about it's like me not looking at her picture. will be using that i think!

btw regarding interrupting a TV programme - we have sky+. Whenever i call them for seomthing (with a countdown reminder etc of course!) they rush for the remote control to "pause" it

Agree ith MorningPaper, count to 3, send to room, take physically if needed.

And with Hecate about picking your battles - although I need practice for this.

we have just taken some toys away from DD because she refused to tidy her room.

But when she had a good week last week, so with GP's help she got a huge reward as the previous 3 weeks had been so lousy.

Good luck - be strong!

"I admire the Alfie Kohn approach, I'm just not sure that either I or DS1 has the temperament for it."

aw tell me about it
5 seems to be a HARD age for ds and I so far
I still think it is the right approach to keep aiming for, for me at least

I really agree with Colditz:

I am not my son's friend, he has friends at school, I am his adoring mother and
guardian of his well being, therefore he goes to bed at half past seven, like it or
lump it.

I am very much AGAINST the "It hurts mummy" school of discipline ("How would you like it if I didn't look at your picture?") because to me this is obedience based on guilt and responsibility for mummy's feelings. My children aren't responsible for my feelings, I am. I don't want my children feeling responsible for my feelings. We have a lot of mental ill-health in my family and feeling responsible for someone else's feelings all the time can destroy you.

Just sit up at dinner because it's what civilised people do, ffs. But I'm not hurt if you don't do it. Just do it.

i don't see what's wrong with my 4 year old doing something because it is rude for her not to - like not sitting up at the table when i have cooked is rude/disrespectful to me, like me not looking at her picture is rude.

that's how i see it, rather than "hurting my feelings"

god I find the 'I'm hurt if you choose not to do this' approach horrible .. how much pressure to put on a small child? that's just shocking ... it is horribly manipulative in my opinion ...

who's saying "hurt"?

the original post was about being "unappreciative" i was saying "rude"

very different to "hurt"

it's an extrapolation of the tone of unappreciative (possibly unfairly)

my mad sister (I have 3 so have a choice) used to say it to her children .. she also said, within my hearing "mummy doesn't love you when you do that" ... and kept banging on about how 'her family doesn't smack and her kids are allowed independent choice' (this was 17 years ago but I still remember it with disgust)

unappreciate does not equal hurt. not imo or ime anyway.

saying mummy doesn't love you, well that's just insane isn't it.

I'd say to my DC's that it's rude if they don't come and sit at the table when I've cooked dinner, but I wouldn't say they make mummy sad or hurt mummy (as I've heard people say) unless they actually physically hurt me.
If they are not very nice with their words I will say that it's not a ncie thing to say and can upset people if they talk like that because I think they need to understand compassion and consideration, I think there is a time and a place for that conversation though and it doesn't fit in with not doing as they're told.
Of course that's just my opinion.

So are there any "no bed-timers" who are interested in explaining??

I am just genuinly curious about the reasoning behind it.

I see where otherside is coming from about the dinner.
We all generally sit down too, and they very rarely appreciate my efforts, and thats fine. Frustrating, but fine.
HOWEVER..If they say "this is horrible/stinky" whatever, then that is rude and they get told that it is rude. Its ok to not like the food, but its not ok to be rude about my cooking.
So I can see the picture analogy.

I also agree with the fact that no-one can "make" you be sad etc. I try to enforce that no-one is in charge of their feelings, and they ALWAYS have a choice.

If my children don't come to sit at the table when I tell them their food is ready, I say I will leave it there for 5 more minutes, and then it will be cold and I will put it in the bin.

TBH it's not usually an issue. I just don't argue about things like that, probably because ds1 is a young 5, but also he is hungry at dinner time, and he is tired at bedtime. When he is overtired we have had some major ructions, and I will give him a drink of water, read a short story over the screaming, carry him upstairs (all calmly) if I have to, skip the teeth for that night and into bed. Generally asleep in seconds. This is very rare though, has perhaps happened 3 times. He has gone beyond reason when he is crying and screaming. I know I can't make a decision then, and I don't expect him to.

I have been away for a few days. Thanks to all those who defended the use of the term 'unappreciated'. I don't like to tell my children what they have done makes me happy/sad because I don't want to put the burden of my happiness on them. I have advised other mners against these terms on other threads.

However in this house we have children who aren't necessarily hungry enough to want to stop what they are involved in to eat and parents who believe sitting down to eat together is important so the term unappreciated is the most effective method we have come up with.

I don't insist they eat or expect them to compliment me on my cooking, I simply expect them to join in on the family time so perhaps 'rude' would be a better term.

We're back to sticker chart this week, with reward a meal at favourite restaurant for tea Friday night this week, and whichever sandals she wants in the world if we make it through next week. Seems to be working so far - although rewards seem a bit bizar.

Our threats don't seem to work especially when she's tired.