What do you do when your 5 year old point blank says "NO" and refuses

[ALMummy]

to tidy his room, go in the bath, go to bed, come to the dinner table etc.

I am at my wits end. There have been constant tantrums over the past week and anything I ask him to do is met with a point blank refusal followed by a screaming tantrum. I think he is beginning to realise that I cant actually MAKE him do anything. What are your tips for getting your DC to co-operate.

ALM young children are not always capable of compromise - but by modelling it ourselves we teach this skill
it isn't something that happens overnight or has a quick shock effect like door holding
but over time is very effective and teaches great skills to your child as they become an adult

As someone who agonises about being too strict and authoritarian I really admire your patience Onward and Upward and am very interested in alternative parenting methods (I'm not sure if I'm too strict or too lenient half the time tbh) but as a large part of being a functioning adult is having to do a load of stuff we don't particular want to, surely working around a child's refusal in the ways you have described (once you have explained reasons behind your demands, tried to distract etc etc) is setting them up for all sorts of disappointments in adulthood isn't it?

Or is your method about giving a child so much choice = empowerment = sense of esteem = ultimately more self-control as an adult....???

I find it fascinating but I worry that children are being asked to make too many choices about their own lives when they are too immature to do so eg only concerned with next five minutes and can't understand consequence of no sleep = tired at school etc etc

Also, don't children feel safer within certain, clear boundaries?

oh clearer now - that makes sense F & Z

onwardandupward, I find your posts really ODD. Do you have children?!

I compromise all day Franny and we have a jolly good time but if I had a 5 year old getting out of bed after I'd been Lovely Mummy for 14 hours then I'm afraid I would insist they STAY THE FCK WHERE THEY ARE at all costs.

I have LOTS of boundaries
I think half of them are probably pointless but I am working on it

things like hurting other people etc are non negotiable, but agree it makes no sense to have lots of rules about things like bathtime if the child doesn't like it

"All he knows is he doesnt enjoy them and he is NOT going to do them"

doesn't that sound quite reasonable to you really? It does to me

MP I wouldn't let my child get up, it isn't negotiable for me

different people make different choices about what is and isn't, though - that's their prerogative

ages ago i read a tip on here - from cod in fact - about warning in advance

simple but effective ime

"10 more minutes then inside for lunch"
"5 more minutes"
etc

ds1 gets very involved in whatever he's doing, and - unsurprisingly - hates being suddenly interrupted

No not really Franny

I do stuff I don't enjoy from the moment I get up and start scrubbing the damn floor

This sounds like hedonism for 5 year olds

Which is all very nice but if we all lived like that we'd be smoking dope, shagging out brother-in-law and pissing around on the playstation until 3am every morning and society wouldn't function

MP, I (heart) you

I've alwys done the count down warning. Very helpful.

( is he hot? none of mine are.....curses!)

no but you know, if I'd spent the evening smoking dope then maybe it would seem like a great plan

I dont enjoy paying my bills F&Z amongst numerous other things but I have to do it dont I? Yes it is reasonable to not want to do things we dont enjoy but surely for a 5 year old eating, sleeping and bathing are non negotiable.

Also I dont have lots of rules about bathtime - just the one - He has a bath every other day.

I have to agree with morningpaper. I couldnt be more easygoing for the majority of the day but bed time, dinner time and bath time are non negotiable really and I think he should tidy up his own toys when he has made an almightly mess.

I dont want my DS to be coerced into anything and one of my big fears is of making him feel trapped by inflexible parenting but there are some things that just need doing - bathing, eating and sleeping.

Franny I honestly don't think we're that different in our parenting at times, it's just the way we approach these kinds of conversations always make us come from the opposite direction

when you admit reality into your posts (you know the actual rather than the desired) you sound very much like me .. it's when you talk about this endless negotiation and giving a 5 year old its rights of independence that I lose my way .. as I'm sure it's when I talk of discipline you lose yours with me

Yes I agree with Twiglett too really, I'm sure the reality is very similar but the language trips us up

I have been pondering spending tomorrow ONLY doing things I enjoy

But I know I would end up fat, with a messy house, and with Richard Hammond's wife on my doorstep looking like

I think Franny is having a rough ride here.
She has many valid points to make, especially the fact that our parent/child relationships do often end up in power struggles.
Anyway, IME I find explanation and humour work much better than punishment (which is what it is in my POV, not discipline)
I just don't understand this fear of cutting our children some slack.
It is obviuos to me that the OP's son's behaviuor is not about the actual thing he is refusing to do but a larger power struggle wothin their relationship

Look at my spelling !

MP-What do you mean you compromise all day?

Could you tell me a bit more about the power struggle I am unaware that I am having with my son please mrsruffalo? How would you explain that those are the only things he refuses to do? He will do anything else I ask of him and we have a really good laugh and time together. Tidying up, bathing, eating dinner, and going to bed are "boring" apparently and I am screamed "NO" at the minute I ask him to do them. He does it to DH and his grandparents also - just about those four things so could it not just be that he does in fact find those things boring and knows that as I am a bit of a softy he can get a good half hour longer with me trying to talk to him about why he doesnt want to do it. FGS I come on here to ask for sensible advice on how to deal with this and it is transformed into a "problem" in our relationship.

I think franny has all the right ideas wrt not arguing, and picking battles etc.

I also think that punishment is not the best way forward, stopping behaviour before it happens is but sometimes we can't do that ad our DC's need to know who is boss so when we say 'That's enough' they know it's enough.

As I said earlier, my two are pretty good with basic tasks like bed/tidying/dinner/getting dresed, but I think it's just because they were never given an option, I just wouldn't argue with them.

Sometimes it has meant being harsh mummy who throws toys in the bin, or even throws dinner away, or carries them to bed and shuts the door only to be outside if they dare think about getting up, I think those times have allowed me the luxury to be able to talk to them about most other things, like going out without a coat on, ok sure. They'll soon change their mind when they're cold, but each parent needs to decide which parts of their daily routine are non-negotiable and which can be worked around.

ALMummy, I don't think it's a power struggle, I think he just knows how far to push you and you need to make it less iyswim.
Putting your foot down sooner should be plenty if you have no other behavioural issues.

I don't think there's anything wrong with aiming for the things I have been talking about

and I don't see that children should be forced into doing things that they don't like to do, just on principle, because a) they will have to at school and b) we adults all have, to all day long, according to these threads

I know there are other (sound) reasons for certain things being non-negotiable, but those two have been trotted out a few times on this thread and I really don't think they are good enough reasons for making your child do things they hate

mrsr I don't feel I have had a rough time - we always disagree on here which is ok - I thought onwards was treated rather rudely though

oh dear I am crap with commas
and I didn't mean you and I always disagree Mrsr which is what it sounded like
I meant 'we MN posters always disagree'

the warning in advance thing is good

can we do other simple tips which help a lot, and are respectful?
I bet we have lots
I could do with some

actually I really liked onwards' one about just letting it all wash over you for a while! better than shouting and losing it every ruddy time

i havent read all of the thread, just some of it.

tidy bedroom? i find a little pocket money helps, dd2 is 5 as well. on a saturday morning, the girls tidy their bedrooms. it doesnt have to be spotless, but good enough. dd2 gets 50p. during the week, i only ask that its keep in an ok state so its safe, ie nothing to trip over in the middle of the floor. .

bath time is non-negotionable in this house due to eczema, so cant help there.

Dinner is at dinnertime. I have actually moved dinner forward in the week to 4.30 so the kids arent whining they are hungrey for too long, and it means they dont get enough time for a sneaky snack lol. they sometimes have a light snack before bed.

bedtime, always at 7pm during the week for them all. have a good routine, keep it the same and try to keep things low key.