Reception child kicking teachers and upturning furniture...

[ruthietoothie]

I'm feeling really worried. My youngest child started reception this year and we knew he might struggle with his behaviour. He had a few incidents at pre school where he kicked staff and threw things at them - mainly if he was told not to do something he really wanted to.

We have this at home too and manage it as best we can. He can be very violent with his and his older siblings. And when he's cross he will do anything he can to hurt us. He has no limits.

Today at school he had a massive meltdown. Hitting teachers. Throwing furniture around. It took the school an hour to calm him down.

I don't really know what to do to best support him. Thinking maybe it's a sign of un underlying condition or problem. Has anyone had anything similar? Or have any advice?

Feel quite alone with it all.

This sounds very difficult OP. I would request a meeting with the teacher and the Senco and get an IEP in place for manageable targets in place for emotional and behavioural development. I am a teacher and my DS struggled with his emotional regulation whilst in nursery and this helped him immensely.

I agree with Jumble but I'd also contact the HV and ask her to do the Social & Emotional Ages & Stages. You can fill it in yourself and ask her to score it.

How's his Speech & Language too. My DD was a little delayed in hers at this age and it did cause a few issues.

Thanks so much for the advice. Really kind and supportive. I appreciate it!

I think what's tricky is that the school has so little resources due to funding cuts etc. I'm also very nervous about it all escalating. He has good speech and language... but just doesn't like being told no!

I've asked for a meeting with school on Wednesday. Hopefully that will be productive.

That's no problem.

What are you hoping to achieve from the meeting?

Jumble face some good advice. I just wanted to add that they may suggest that he is assessed for ASD and didn't want it to come as a surprise for you.

DD went to Primary with a lovely DD whose DParents were extremely shocked and upset whenever ASD was mentioned, so much so that the poor girl didn't get any help at all until she started High School.

Hey. You're not alone - I'm in a similar situation. Maybe not quite as extreme, but my son has been hitting other kids, and he has thrown a chair. Some issues at nursery too. I have a meeting with the SENco this week to try to get an IEP sorted as he clearly needs support (he's an angel at home). Also having him assessed for autism. It's horrible isn't it, but it's not your fault and you're not alone on this.

Thanks for flagging the possibility that they'll raise autism & sorry to hear things are so tough for you too @Worriedmotheroftwo

I spoke to school yesterday and they said there was no capacity for one to one support so I'm assuming they not going to be up for doing an IEP but I can suggest that. Don't have any faith in their senco lead as she's been obstructive with my other child who also struggles so I am wondering if need to try and get a charity to support instead...

I'd have a look at Caudwell Children to see if it's worth asking for a referral to there.

You might want to post in the SN Children section too to see if they can offer some tips on how to deal with an obstructive SENCO.

Thanks so much @SiouxsieSiouxStiletto quick update from me. I had a meeting with the school today. Because of resources there's not much they're suggesting rn, except trying to get to know my son better.. there is also a service where I live called early Hel so some chat about doing a referral to there. Not saying anything about asd right now and just saying best to wait to see how next few weeks go....

Frankly your school is crap and I'd be looking for another.

Yes resources are non existent but it sounds like he has some quite serious issues to be chucking furniture around and hitting adults at school already.
He needs assessment and support...and sooner the better.
You can apply for an EHCP yourself... it does NOT have to be initiated by school.
Keep a record of EVERY incident, and exactly how it is dealt with.. you need this to build evidence of support needs.
Assessment for ASD/ADHD/PDA takes AGES so compiling a picture of how he behaves at school AND home is vital.

Also have a google of PDA.. not so well known and sort of on the edge of the autistic spectrum. Children are generally able but cannot cope with demands made on them.. their way or the highway.

(I work in special ed and with a lot of children who display behaviours that challenge... with the right support children do brilliantly)

Gosh @Sonolanona I feel a bit sick about it all tbh. To be super clear he's only upended furniture once though it was a bad and a prolonged meltdown. I think if I mentioned an EHCP at this stage the school would just laugh me out of the building. My partner is also nervous about being too quick to do assessments and so on... but the waits are years and years right? I was thinking he was maybe too young to start that process with (e.g. still 4).

Do you have any suggestions about where else I should go for support -e.g. I was thinking I could try speaking to the GP or to the health visitor... dunno!

Thanks for the advice

Hi OP
Sorry your LO is having a tough start to school. My LO, just turned 4, is similar. We've had an incident of throwing a chair after DC was prevented from pressing buttons on a screen and another button pressing incident where LO has been balancing in furniture and been brought to the floor for their safety, leading them the lash out against the teacher (was initially told LO was being violent, now that I have further details I see they were failing to manage LO's impulsivity and their way of managing the behaviour elicited a rather cross reaction). I am not condoning LO's reaction but they are a teeny just turned 4 year old with unmet needs not a wild brute who is impossible to manage, the incidents could both have been avoided if they had employed the strategies nursery and us parents had recommended during our many many transition meetings but of course school knew better (never had any incidents at nursery).
We also get strong reactions when we don't let LO have their way at home but have learned to distract and divert attention so it never escalates to the point of meltdowns.
LO has been hyperactive and impulsive since day dot, referral via GP for ADHD/autism assessment 6 months ago, nursery wrote reports and Early Years Inclusion did observations so everything was in place for starting school, including higher needs funding to provide LO with additional TA support. Are you able to reach out to your local authority inclusion team to discuss the best way forward if you don't feel you'll have much luck with the school?
School are now insisting on a part time timetable for my LO to help adjust to school - thing is the behaviours are a result of the neurodiversity not overwhelm from school but as LO is not of compulsory school age they can do this. It's a nightmare for us parents to manage as we work fulltime.
I hope you'll manage to find some support for your DC.

@curlydiamond so sorry to hear you are facing these challenges. It sounds and must be really difficult. Hope having the assessment and the TA provision is helping and that the place you work is supportive. I feel a bit unsure about what to do tbh, now, especially as today school rang and asked me to collect him early as they felt he was veering towards another major Meltdown. I really want them to put in some preventative measures and ak scared about how we will cope if we need to come and get him regularly before the end of the school day. Both me and my partner work and we have three other children so there's lots of juggling that we need to do. Tempted to try play therapy but also not sure if that just a panacea. School are still not suggesting any specific interventions apart from taking the time to get to know him better.... argh!!!!

@curlydiamond your situation sounds so similar to ours, although we have our son in full time at the moment. We're pushing for more support for him but not getting it - they seem a bit dismissive actually which worries me as I don't want anyone to get hurt. Like your school, they seem to think they know best. Maybe they do but they certainly don't know my son best! We have an ASD assessment in a few weeks which might prove to the school that it's more than just a bit of naughty behaviour.

Sorry you're having a hard time too @Worriedmotheroftwo - can I ask if you went private for the asd assessment. Things going from bad to worse with my son. He was sent home early from school on Friday then again today! School aren't really explaining why this is happening properly and don't seem to be willing to offer any support. Very tricky for us to collect, especially with demands of jobs etc

No we didn't go private - we did it through the NHS but with a private provider. It's called Right to Choose and not many people know about it at the moment. Will pm you.

Thanks @Worriedmotheroftwo just jumping on here with an update and to ask for some more advice! My son had another massive meltdown today at school and ended up kicking the deputy head. We been called in for a meeting tomorrow and it sounds like they going to suggest he drops to part time hours. This is totally untenable for us with work and life stuff and also worried what it would do for him in terms of his self confidence and wider relationship with school. Also a bit fed up as school not really putting in any interventions. Anyone got any advice about what we should be saying to school?????? Feeling a bit desperate tbh

Have you been told what happened leading to this meltdown?

No @SiouxsieSiouxStiletto although he says it was cos a child hit him... but maybe that's not that likely

It sounds like an EHCP is needed later? If it's got to the point where they're asking him to be in school less, then surely that's the logical next step. Parents can self-refer for an EHCP by the way - you don't need the school to do it for you.

In the meantime, I think the school should have an IEP (Individual Education Plan) in place for your son so it's clear what support he is getting and what to do in certain situations. My son's school has just put one of those, plus a risk assessment, in place for my son. I'd aak for that to be sorted immediately.

So sorry its so tough.

Sorry, autocorrect - ignore the 'later' in my first sentence!

My advice (I'm definitely no expert but in a similar boat!) is to stay calm in the meeting, and focus on the main points:

A) they have a duty of care to both your son and other children
B) your son badly needs support
C) ask what the triggers are (have they kept a record, eg ABC chart?)
D) ask what support has already been put in place (I expect the answer will be none)
E) ask what support is going to be put in place now
F) If they try to suggest they are unable to offer the support your son needs, the obvious next step is an EHCP.

Take a pen and paper and write everything down.

Also, try giving Ipsea and Sendiass a call tomorrow- I've found both of those helpful for advice on autism (even though my son isn't diagnosed).

My Local Authority also has a SEN helpline... could you see if yours has that too and call them for advice?

Thanks so much for the advice! Really appreciate it. This was just an initial meeting, and the main one with the head is next week. Your advice will be super helpful for that so big thanks @Worriedmotheroftwo - today they talked about him going to a reduced timetable and also that they may have to suspend him (he's FOUR). There is still no sen involvement and the only real additional provision is that they are trying to get to know him better (!!) to understand his triggers. I feel so upset about it all!

Suspending a 4 year old makes me feel sick. He absolutely needs support and they need to be looking for the root cause. There should be SEN involvement as right now he clearly has additional needs of some sort (whether he is neurodiverse or not is irrelevant). Are you able to speak directly to the SENCo?

Thanks @Worriedmotheroftwo I feel so tense and anxious about it and a bit disbelieving about this being where we are at. School aren't involving the senco team at all and they said today that they think some of his behaviour is deliberate choices and so has to be dealt with as such.... so cold! And hard. There's some additional provision at school but they saying that's all at capacity and I just feel sick about it!