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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Am on the edge of either a breakdown or loosing my temper...

50 replies

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 11:22

Ds[4.4] has always been a bad sleeper but the past 5mths we thought we had cracked it he was sleeping through and even slept in a couple of times. Now the past week he has been a nightmare again and I dont know what to do. Last night he was screaming and carrying on so much he woke both dds and I ended up roaring at him. Obviously that doesnt help with his no sleeping but what on earth can I do??? I have no not slept a full night since being pg with him due to having 2 teething dds the last 6mths I have been getting on average 5hrs a night sleep. I go to bed earlier and it makes no difference as I cant sleep. Last night he woke up at 12.30am and didnt go back to sleep until after 3am and of course dd1 was up at 6.20am so how do I get him to sleep before I either kill him or myself[yes I suffer severe depression which is made worse by the lack of sleep]

OP posts:

HonoriaGlossop · 15/02/2008 11:26

blimey you poor thing, not having had a night's sleep in all that time is actual torture, isn't it.

What does he do when he wakes? what did he do between 12.30am and 3am?

foxythesnowman · 15/02/2008 11:31

You poor thing, sounds awful.

Tell us more about the situation. Is he in his own room? Does he have nightmares/terrors (they can happen at this age)? A night light? How is he when he goes down of an evening?

Is there anything preventing you getting to sleep earlier? Caffine does it for me, if I have coffee after lunchtime I'll wake up at 3am.

Is he at school or nursery?

Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 11:34

he woke up last night and started shouting for me so went in asked was he ok. He said he wanted me to sit in his room so I did for about 10mins thought he was back asleep so went to bed. 5 mins later he was standing by our bed asking could he get in so I said he could have 5 min cuddle then back to bed which he said was fine. Had his cuddle got out the bed then sat on our bedroom floor screaming..not just crying but screaming at which point dh got up and put him back into bed and asked him to stop screaming. He stopped then lay in bed crying to himself and repeating I cant do it for about 10mins. So of course went back in asked was he ok and he said he couldnt sleep alone. He wanted to come into our bed but we have a rule of no one in our bed past 5mths old because if one gets in they all want in. Then basically he was up and down crying then screaming until about 2am when he woke the girls up. At which point I lost my temper and roared at him to get back into bed and stop it as it was unfair. He went back into bed and was still crying that he hates me and hates himself[ his phrase of the moment] until he finally fell asleep after much banging around etc after 3am.

OP posts:

Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 11:37

he has a night light on is in nursery, going to bed he has always been great no probs as long as he has a story. He is in his own room and has been from about 2mths old. We replaced his mattress on his bed 5mths ago which was when he began sleeping through. We have tried reward charts, instant reward for the morning and nothing has helped. Thing is in the morning he says I slept all night in my bed didnt I at which point obviously we are flabbergasted.

One major thing is he has been really unsettled in nursery since christmas and on the 1st dec we were broken into while we were in bed which he heard. However it didnt effect his sleep then. He has been having complete melt downs in his behaviour lately including trashing his room the other night and kicking dh etc.

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HonoriaGlossop · 15/02/2008 11:43

It's so hard isn't it - my ds used to find it really, really hard to drop off to sleep alone. My mum told me that I had a phase of getting up all through the night and wanting her, and what she did was just keep returning me to my bed...as many times as it took.

Thing is, this worked with me, but we tried this with our ds and no way did it work. He was too distressed and just too UNABLE to do it.

I wonder if you could find a way to let him sleep with you for a while...I know you say the dd's will want the same, but perhaps you could sweeten the pill for them by saying that they can have an extra treat each day because they do manage to stay in their beds? Also could be a little temptation to your ds who may want to get the same thing, eventually.....if you present it very positively to them it may stop them feeling they want to come in too?

delcymru · 15/02/2008 11:44

It might be a good idea to talk to HV or doctor , as it sounds like the break in may have affected his sleeping, maybe without him knowing about it. Also , are you sure he definately wakes and is not sleepwalking or has the night terrors? You poor thing , there is nothing worse than not being able to sleep , so you may feel better by doing something positive to try and rectify it. I'm sure even a visit to a child counsellor might be worth thinking about. Hang in there, it will get better.

foxythesnowman · 15/02/2008 11:55

I agree that it might be worth finding out if your GP surgery has anyone who deals with childrens behaviour. Its impossible to know whether the break-in is the source of it, but its a good starting point and something tangible to and get specialist help with (they would be less likely to dismiss it as a phase, I think).

You've done everything that I've tried, sticker charts etc.

Is his room near yours and do you leave the doors open? I'm just thinking of trying to make him feel 'connected' to you without him being with you.

Have you spoken to his nursery to find out if there is any reason he is unsettled there?

I'm afraid its one of those things which you may never know why he does it simply because children's worries manifest themselves in different ways, but usually within their behaviour rather than verbally.

Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 11:57

del think might see hv

HG dds are only 2 and 1 but if they see ds in the bed they want in aswell.

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Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 11:58

foxy his room is near to ours as it is only a small 3 bed house and we can hold a conversation without getting out of bed iykwim.
Have spoken to nursery a few times as he cries every morning going in but once he is there and I have left he is fine. I do think it is a confidence issue at the min but I just dont know what to do about it.

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helenelisabeth · 15/02/2008 11:59

I watched a program not too long ago with a child very similar to yours. The child psychologist who was advising the parents straight away advised them to let the child sleep with them. Not saying this is the way forward for you but just food for thought...

Good luck and hope you find what is up. How is his behaviour during the day? Is he a "high needs" child?

helenelisabeth · 15/02/2008 12:00

Just noticed Honoria recommended the same - sorry hadn't read all the posts thoroughly.

Could get away with it so your DDs don't notice?

NAB3wishesfor2008 · 15/02/2008 12:02

I think something has unsettled him and maybe he didn't hear the break in but has heard you talking about it and is maybe scared when he wakes up. Bit concerend about the fact he doesn't realise he has been up in the night in the morning as it doesn't sound like he could be sleep walking if he is talking and crying.

Could you rest in the day when the younger ones do?

Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 12:06

nab he did hear the break in and obviously was up when the police came etc there was no way we could have hidden it. He spent a while saying bad men with hammers were coming for him

behaviour in the day lately has been horrendous but then he hasnt been sleeping.He has what I can only describe as melt downs..he completely lost it last week in asda and dh had to stand outside with him while he threw a whopper of a tantrum to the point where someone asked dh if ds was actually his as they were concerned he was being taken. the other evening he trashed his bedroom because dh said he would read his bedtime story.

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HonoriaGlossop · 15/02/2008 12:13

i honestly think if this was me I would let him sleep with me. Many children get unsettled at this age and are prey to fears; let alone a child who has experienced what he has.

Most of the time, if he gets in and there is no reason for fuss and bother and screaming, the girls will stay asleep and won't even know or care if he is in the bed.

If they see him in the morning, they don't need to know he's been there all night. "DS was up first again" is all that needs to be said. From what you say, he won't even remember where he has spent the night so he won't be saying "Ner, ner I was in the big bed".....

Let the poor boy have what he needs I say

Or perhaps you could even set up a little bed next to his, so that one of you can go to sleep next to him with no fuss or bother. Gradually over time you can reduce the time you're in there but it's just another way of stopping the night wakings being so painful for all.

Clearly just returning him isn't going to work; he's always found it a problem and now he has VERY good reason to be scared. No point trying to push water uphill

Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 12:16

you make sense honoria think i just worry there is something a lot deeper that needs sorting. Will try letting him in our bed tonight and see what happens..although we did this couple of nights ago and while he slept peacefully once in there dh and I did not as he is a throw himself around sleeper.

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NAB3wishesfor2008 · 15/02/2008 12:19

Oh, my mistake, sorry. I read it as he hadn't heard the break in. Poor little man.

Start afresh if you can and plan a routine and just take it really slowly.

I feel for you as I have been tired for so long now and it really gets you down.

Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 12:22

what i cant understand is how they can manage to be full of energy Ds has played non stop this morning and been to speech group but is not tired at all..I however feel completely fecked. Luckily dds are in nursery this afternoon so will try to grap some sleep on the couch.

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foxythesnowman · 15/02/2008 12:22

I think there is an arguement for letting him sleep with you but I don't think its a solution. What it would do is allow you to rest, and in turn give you the strength to crack the problem.

If he has a full-sized bed, could you or DH sleep with him to start with?

cory · 15/02/2008 12:23

Have to admit we let ds come in with us when he needs to. It was very helpful last year when he went through a bad patch (found out that his sports instructor had been murdered and was horrendously upset). He is also a thrashing around sleeper- but if it gets too bad one of us would nip out and take his bed. I think sometimes you do have to go with the most humane solution- for all of you- even if it's not what you find recommended in the books. And sleeping next to the safest person he knows can be very reassuring for a little one.

HonoriaGlossop · 15/02/2008 12:25

agree, foxy - it's not a solution forever, but then kids grow up and don't NEED the same stuff forever.

I just think this has been so long on-going that it's a sign the child is UNABLE to cope. And in my book, when you have 3 young children, there is no point in letting something bring you to the point of nervous breakdown, when there is a quick and easy way round it that (either them sleeping with you, or you sleeping with them)makes the child happy

Original poster

Nemoandthefishes · 15/02/2008 12:26

would love to sleep in his bed but it is a midi sleeper

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bubblagirl · 15/02/2008 12:41

i put a ready bed on the floor in my room for my ds sleep therapist recommended it

had to keep puttingback in his bed for as long as i could then had to sleep on ready bed not withme its so he gets used to not cuddling me works a treat

some nights he has gone all the way through and if he wakes ill put him in ready bed and stays thewre till 7 but will always wake 5.30 if manages to sleep through in his bed

scattyspice · 15/02/2008 12:46

Nemo your DS sounds just like mine. He is 4.7 and at school. he didn't sleep throught he night at all until 3.6 yrs and now still has bad nights (our 2yo is the same!). I have tried every solution and also found myself loosing my temper .
The only answer for us has been to squeeze into his bed or him in ours. I usually set up the sofa bed ready as one of them will be up.
I can remember not being able to sleep as a child (and getting told off). I really think it is a genuine need rather than bad behaviour. Lots of people disapprove though. If you can find a way to get some sleep the days go much better.
Also I agree about the enery thing. I find the more tierd DS is the faster he goes!

Good luck.

foxythesnowman · 15/02/2008 12:55

I do agree with you HG to some extent, but it has to work for everyone, and with 3 lo's its hard.

Plus, sometimes sleep is the only sanctuary, and the only time child-less. I have a friend with a 5 year old who has never slept in his bed. That is fine for them, but would drive me mad.

HonoriaGlossop · 15/02/2008 13:02

But sleep is not happening, and not sanctuary, and not child-less for this couple at the moment - no point trying to protect something that doesn't exist

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