very concerned: nursery teachers says my son is behind developmentally

[closethippie]

i hate to get defensive about this kind of thing, but my son only turned 3.5 at around Xmas time, and has only been going to nursery since Sept, with lots of breaks in between, he has only just got used to going there regularly since the new year, he enjoys going in every morning now, but used to resist before Xmas, i have been at home with him for over 3 years, he has never had any other caregivers other than hubby and i

he is super sharp, very very affectionate, hugs and kisses all the time, gets into my lap all the time, was bf until very recently so we have a very close physical bond, is bilingual so his english is behind, i am told he doesn't join in with the singing or story reading i assume because he is not used to it or because he doesn't understand due to lack of english, he is an only child so no matter how much we tell he must share, he still doesn't like sharing toys at home or outside (i read somewhere that we shouldn't expect them to understand sharing until they are at least 4, this was confirmed by someone i know who is a child psychologist), so what is going on ? we do remind him he must share constantly and we do have set boundaries of good and bad behaviour at home, although i am opposed to certain types of "descipline" and prefer to just reward him for good behaviour.

i am now told that someone is coming to "assess" my son together with another boy who shows similar "behaviour" and is about the same age.

i am seriously worried that my son is going to get "labelled" at an early age for no other reason other than he doesn't "conform" to set patterns of activity which is bizzare because i specifically chose the nursery on the basis that it isn't mainstream (it is a montessori)

could someone please tell me whether they also have an extremely energetic child who is having simialr issues at 3 or 4 years old ? i would particularly like to hear from bilinguals.

any advice much appreciated.

memyson - you said "TBH all children would like to set their own routines, and forget about structure. But unfotunately, at 3.5 years old, this aproach may backfire".

i agree with that statement, but it also read like an assumption that dh and i have no set structure for my 3.5 year old. we do, we just don't straight jacket him. he has a regular sleeping and eating routine. as far as i am concerned that is the only routine a 3.5 year old needs. he sleeps 12 hours every night and eats regular meals and we do his teeth twice a day.

as a bf baby he had no set routine until he was around 10 months old. he set his own routine. he was demand fed round the clock so we decided we had to go by his biological clock rather than impose ours on him.

i have just spoken to our HV in this area for the first time ever.

when i told her about the nursery's comments she laughed ! she said she comes across this sort of thing from bilingual families all the time and the comments they make re their children at nurseries.

she said are they expecting a child who has never heard these songs nad stories and doesn't fully speak the langauge to sit still and integrate fully within 2.5 months ?

would an adult be able to integrate fully into another culture within 2.5 months ??????

i have a lot respect for my son not just as a child but also as an individual. i think people sometimes lose sight of the fact that even small children are individuals.

Not understanding that you stay sitting at the table when other children are seated, that you sit at circle time with the other children etc can be a sign of problems. It can also mean absolutely nothing, but it is the nursery's job to help any children they think may need extra help.

The nursery aren't judging your son in the way you seem to think. They're not looking at him and finding him wanting, they just have certain concerns that they think (quite possibly incorrectly) need further observation.

Their communication may be dreadful (FWIW we were on the receiving end of some terrible comments when ds1's original nursery first raised concerns- and I would say they were a lesson in how not to go about it- the nursery we moved him to was far better) but I think you're misreading their intentions tbh.

I hope the observation goes well and everything can be forgotten in a few weeks.

I think that you have to sit down and write a list of the problems you have with the nursery.

Write it in order of importance, what bothers you most. What is niggling, but can be lived with. You might even find that once you sort out the most important thing, that the rest falls into place.

There seems to be a lot that you are not happy with. The nursery's plan to assess your DS. Their attitude towards his bilingual upbringing. The behaviour of the other children and their parents. The "problem" with sitting and listening to stories. The idea that he should be integrated within a couple of months.

Tbh, it sounds like you might be better looking for another nursery, one that better suits your son and your parenting style.

I do think you need to get an optician to look at his eye. Sounds painful.

I agree with kindersurprise. Changing ds1's nursery was right for us and helped- especially as we had such good communication at the nursery he moved to.

Do remember thought that in any nursery setting some sort of circle/story time & sitting to eat at mealtimes will be expected. If you do move nurseries it would be worth asking them how they would deal with those issues in particular to see if they have strategies that you are comfortable with.

I don't see why you're so anti-assessment. I know you're probably worried about what they might say but as has already been mentioned by someone else, they can't create issues - only identify them.

Your ds clearly needs some help within the preschool setting, even if it is only to help them learn what's expected. Why would you not want your child to have extra attention/help?

like Yurt, we moved DS1 from his nurdery palcement with good effect- he went from a playgroup where they seemed to confuse him with an adult because of his excellent speech and allowed him access to the birthday cake knife etc (), and from where he would come home miming the actions of smoking, to the MOntessori. his Sn didnt get picked up at either setting (although immediately on school entry).

Ok please don't shoot me down. Your thread title- read it again. What concerns you most? Are you most concerned that the nursery might not think your son is not perect as such 9although Sn kids ARE perfect in their own ways), or that there may be something wrong with your son? I know asking is likely to provoke a car crash response. I also know we pulled ds1 from the assessment system once after convincing ourself he was OK, and frankly should have had ds3 assessed a lot earlier but let him down due to our denial. I can't say which is the truest- I don't know you- I just think it may be worth a moment's meditation.

well, what can i say. i took ds to a potential new nursery yesterday. beautiful place with a huge outdoor play area. children from different countries, many bilingual or trilingual. we watched him play for 45 mins both outside nad inside. i left him for a few mins. to play while i spoke to the head, when i came back ds had actually asked one of the teachers in english whether he could paint and play with the water, so they let him. he was also communicating well with several of the boys.

i asked the teacher whether she understod what he was saying in english, and she looked shocked when i said he was bilingual because he had spoken to her without any problems : ) she had observed him for just a few mins. and the first thing she said was wow "he is really bright isn't he, he can say all the shapes and colours in english".

he then spent about 30 mins. outside playing side by side other boys in the sand pit.

i think the experience yesterday tells me everything i need to know. the old place is wrong for my son.

we are also getting him independently assessed soon although i have no concerns, it is the nursery that has made me qusetion myself.

my cousin is a paedetrician who sees ds often. when i told her that his old nursery had raised questions about his behaviour she laughed.

it now turns out that the other little boy is confirmed as SN and that the old nursery had separated ds and him out of the group, taken them to another room. they thought this was a good idea as ds was the only one who communicated and played with this boy who has no english. i have seen ds being pushed very hard against the wall by this boy, on both occassions at randomn while ds was standung still.

i have told the new nursery about this separation and they think it is most bizarre. the old nursery does not have qualified SN staff and is therefore unable to deal with the boy who has SN.

i can't see why my boy whom a qualified paedetrician says has no SN or learning difficulties should be separated out of his group just so that the others can do their singing. in fact i feel bad for the SN boy. he should not be separated either, he needs attention to integrate, surely ?

what is obvious is that the old nursery are out of their depth.

Really glad to hear that you have looked at a different nursery. Sounds like they are much better with bilingual children.

Can he start in the new nursery right away?

Am glad for you that you have found somewhere better - what you say about the old nursery sounds very unprofessional. Cant help feeling sorry for the other boy. Completely wrong to rely on your ds to give him the help that he needs, though. Maybe the assessment will allow them to get some more help for him.

So I'm coming to this thread very late and I'm glad you've found a nursery that sounds like it will suit your ds perfectly closethippie. But I've just read this thread from the beginning and my immediate reaction was "it's a montessori!" I personally really don't have a wonderful opinion of montessori and I've had quite indepth experience of them which tbh I'm a bit reluctant to share as I'm going to give myself away.
Montessori developed her method for educating children with severe learning difficulties in early 1900's. To my mind the system stifles creativity and hinders social development. I was shocked at the constricted routine and It would never have suited either myself or my ds's.
Obviously, before you all slate me, not all nurseries follow the true method and a lot will be run be wonderful caring people. But I often wonder if many parents realise how unbending this system is.

Just double check on the staff. Make sure the person who will be writing notes on your child is experienced by obtaining answers to the following questions:

How long have they worked at that nursery? Preferably more than 2 years. If less than 2 years, ask why? Where were they before? How long did they work at the previous nursery? Why did they leave that nursery?

Your child needs someone who will "stick", that is, be around for your child for the length of your child's stay. There is nothing more unsettling for a child than "Teflon staff", those that drift from one nursery to another, who show little or no commitment to your child because they have no intention of sticking around. Some can be at the nursery by default, often on 'work experience' type placement arranged by the JobCentre Plus staff who need to hit targets of getting people off Job Seekers Allowance and into paid jobs. Nursery nurses pay are notoriously low so it's not surprising that there are many Teflon staff about. Make sure that your child is not looked after by one of these. I know I'll get criticism for writing this, but I'm only writing what many people daren't write.

What are their qualifications? INSIST YOU SEE THE CERTIFICATES. Do not be fobbed off with answer "oh, I've got an NVQ level 3". Meaningless drivel - you want to see those words on a piece of paper that is called a certificate. For example, as a bare minimum, you want to see something along the lines of:
-CACHE Level 3 Diploma in Child Care and Education
-BTEC National Diploma in Children's Care, Learning and Development or
-NVQ Level 3 in Children's Care, Learning and Development.
The member of staff looking after your child should also have or be working towards Early Years Professional Status (EYPS).
If the staff you meet are clueless on these qualification, run away from the nursery and don't look back!

What other experience does the member of staff looking after your child have? Someone whose been a nursery nurse or teacher for 10 years will have seen a greater 'range' of children than someone with 10 months experience. As with any skill - and childcare or being able to look after other people's children is a skill - those who have exercised/practiced these skills for a long time tend to develop a sixth sense. They intuitively know when something is not 'right' and will seek appropriate guidance and collect the necessary evidence. They are also more likely to have the confidence to judge whether they should 'wait and see' or whether further action is required from specialists. As oppose to jump to conclusions and refer a child to specialists at the first instance because they don't know what else to do.

Speak to the person who will spend most of their time with your child. Do they have a similar outlook to yourself? There's always going to be differences in points of view, but on the whole, they should be similar to yours. For example, I don't rate people who are xenophobic, who discriminate or judge people by their size or background, or those who are prejudicial. If you think these people don't exist - or for some reason, you believe that don't exist in childcare, then you're in complete denial. I know from bitter experience these type of people do work in childcare. Just make sure they don't work in the nursery your child attends.

This post is longer than I had anticipated. With the benefit of hindsight, the above write-up include the factors I should have considered in the first place. Something that I bitterly regret.

I apologise for the tone of my lost post. I still haven't got over the experience!

CH, I'm really glad you've found somewhere decent for him. I hope he can start there soon - it sounds like he'll blossom there

thanks everyone for your support here. mumofhelen, yes i will be much more careful this time : ) hopefully he will start somewhere new in the next few weeks. i will report back on how he is getting on. ingles what you say is fascinating.

ingles- can you elaborate on why you feel that montessori method stifles creativity, without giving too much away?

my dd2 is at a montessori nursery. I wouldnt say its very creative, but then the whole German system is less geared towards creativity than the English one. What they are very good at, is teaching her new skills and experiences, through tasks.

Can I just add to what mumofhelen said. I've had dc at a nursery with young staff and they were brilliant. When we moved areas, our third child went to a nursery with staff in their 30's plus and they've been really inept at dealing with problems.
I do think it comes to qualifications first and then length of service. So a young well qualified nursery nurse is better than a more mature person of lesser training.

FWIW CH, I was told twice by the a paediatric neurologist there was nothing at all wrong with my DS (at 9 months and 20 months)and I should stop being so anxious and enjoy him.

As it happens he was wrong (and I was sadly right).

They may be hightly qualified medical staff but they are still only human.

A very flexible nursery style is 'high scope' pure HS is entirely child centered, more so than any other approach I've come across.

Nighybynight what I couldn't stand was the rigidity of the little tasks the children perform. I can totally understand how this would benefit children with very severe difficulties but could not see how this would encourage a childs natural curiosity.
For example: I observed two children side by side performing tasks independantly yes, but with no communication or discussion. 1 was pouring sand another was pouring water. they could not deviate from the specified task, so, no pouring water onto sand, no discussion about the differences maybe, no opportunity to feel the texture. They just had to finish the task as neatly as possible and then return it the little brown box to the little brown shelf. As a creative this makes me scream inside. I actually thought it was a really sad little situation with soooo many missed opportunities.
Hi Norty.. don't worry, not my lo's, this was work!

CH I went away from this thread thinking 'you need a new nursery' but never got to post too busy sorry. Glad you have found a potential place IMHO just what you need and hope it works out better for you all

thank you, thats interesting. where we live, the only private schools that are allowed, are montessori and steiner ones, and international ones.

You've had tonnes of posts saying similar, but I just wanted to say that my mum was a SENCO (Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator) so worked with children who were being assessed at primary school. She would say that the assessment is very helpful. It'll either say there's nothing wrong, or suggest ways in which you can help your son.
If you cooperate and work closely with the nursery staff, you will have more control about what goes on and get a clearer picture. It sounds as though you know exactly the reasons that your child doesn't conform and there's nothing abnormal.
If you can afford it and there's one near you, you might find a Montessori or Steiner school would suit him better. They go from age 3, and have a completely different approach to education. I think they're awesome (but can't afford!). Search on the internet to find out more.