very concerned: nursery teachers says my son is behind developmentally

[closethippie]

i hate to get defensive about this kind of thing, but my son only turned 3.5 at around Xmas time, and has only been going to nursery since Sept, with lots of breaks in between, he has only just got used to going there regularly since the new year, he enjoys going in every morning now, but used to resist before Xmas, i have been at home with him for over 3 years, he has never had any other caregivers other than hubby and i

he is super sharp, very very affectionate, hugs and kisses all the time, gets into my lap all the time, was bf until very recently so we have a very close physical bond, is bilingual so his english is behind, i am told he doesn't join in with the singing or story reading i assume because he is not used to it or because he doesn't understand due to lack of english, he is an only child so no matter how much we tell he must share, he still doesn't like sharing toys at home or outside (i read somewhere that we shouldn't expect them to understand sharing until they are at least 4, this was confirmed by someone i know who is a child psychologist), so what is going on ? we do remind him he must share constantly and we do have set boundaries of good and bad behaviour at home, although i am opposed to certain types of "descipline" and prefer to just reward him for good behaviour.

i am now told that someone is coming to "assess" my son together with another boy who shows similar "behaviour" and is about the same age.

i am seriously worried that my son is going to get "labelled" at an early age for no other reason other than he doesn't "conform" to set patterns of activity which is bizzare because i specifically chose the nursery on the basis that it isn't mainstream (it is a montessori)

could someone please tell me whether they also have an extremely energetic child who is having simialr issues at 3 or 4 years old ? i would particularly like to hear from bilinguals.

any advice much appreciated.

or the nursery's difficulties in dealing with a bilingual child???

Nighbynight........have to agree with you on that, but i didnt comment as my personal experiances are not in this area

i think i need to know who the people coming to assess are and what they report. i don't wish to get paranoid, but the nursery have not been upfront in their previous decisions, etc. and not good at informing parents of what is going on well in advance. i wasn't asked whether it was ok to get my son assessed, i was just told in a matter of fact way that "someone is coming in to assess" both my son and the other bilingual because they need funding to bring in another nursery teacher for these two. they also say they have never had this sort of issue before, which i find difficult to believe as lots of bilinguals attend the nursery because of where we live. they have also asked dh and i for extra money if the council don't fund the extra help.

it all seems to be wrapped up with needing more money which is what concerns me. if no mention had been made of money then i would have been far less paranoid.

does anyone know whether there is an independent way of getting my son assessed and whether any sort of assessment may be deterimnetal to his school application ? i have applied to our catchment school for this coming sept., but i will not get a reply re. acceptance until april.

You could pay for a private ed psych assessment, but they're pretty pricey. Or a private SALT assessment but they can't actually diagnose as such although they would give a detailed report.

The money thing is fairly standard - if they're looking for extra support from the council. We had a battle every blinking term with the council when ds1 was in nursery. I was never asked to pay if we didn't get funded, but his attendance was limited by the hours support the LEA would pay for i.e. the nursery wouldn't allow him to attend without support.

It all sounds a bit strange. As if they would like more staff and are using the "difficulties" with bilingual children as a way of getting the financing.

The problem is really, that unless the person assesing your son has experience with bilingual children, then they are not really qualified to make a judgement. I have already spoken to many professionals who know much less than I do about bilingual upbringing.

As Nighty mentioned (excellent post btw) there is a huge difference between monolingual and bilingual children, whether the nursery believe that or not.

It would be worth finding out if there is a special programme to ease his path into school. We are possibly moving to Switzerland this year and the schools there have a special entry class for children who do not speak French very well. They are then moved into a normal class when the teachers feel that they can cope. I do not know if there is anything like that available in your area.

I really doubt they'd be doing it just for extra staff. Here, the nursery is only funded for the cost of the extra member of staff a term in arrears-a significant delay for any small business.

i don't have a problem with paying extra, etc. the issue is the way in which they do things. they do things underhand. i should have been told about someone coming in to assess and surely asked permission ? instead they have said, "someone is coming in to assess both of these boys" in a matter of fact way, without any indication that they were ever going to ask our permission.

when we were first interviewed in the summer no mention was ever made that the building we started in sept. was being sold. they knew about the move and never mentioned it. the first week my son started there we noticed a "For Sale" sign had gone up on the building.

i think this is really unprofessional and really i should have made a fuss intially but didn't as it is catch-22 i feel that any fuss i make etc will reflect badly on my son and that may treat him differently to the other children, etc. if i am seen as a bolshie mum. instead i have been extra cautious, very polite, very friendly, give gifts to the school and teachers, offered to help with the move, i helped with the move, etc, we have now been moved to a building that is horrid compared to what we had before and it is now twice the drive from our home.

now i feel they are just taking the piss saying that they need extra staff in for my son and the other bilingual. these two are not the only bilinguals, the school has a constant stream of bilinguals because of its location. everyone who knows us says my son is super sharp, doesn't have any development delays, is well-adjusted and confident, we are devoted to attachment parenting, yes
he has started speaking later than a monolingual, he met all his physical development milestones bang on time, he is also extremely affectionate not just with us but with friends and family, loves being cuddled and kissed.

no one has ever raised any issues other than he is extremely energetic and won't sit still for long. i am wondering whether there are cultural issues at play here as well, because children are expected to be quite much more than say in italy or spain or greece or other cultures where children are seen eating out with their parents late at night for example and energetic children are treated differently there.

i honestly can't see why i am bing told that because he can't share his toys well at the age of 3.5, that he has a development problem. they refuse to take into consideration the fact that he is an only child and that he has had minimal contact with other children since the day he was born, which i admit has probably "delayed" his ability to share simply because he has never had to. that doesn't mean we don't tell him he must share, because we do.

he is picking up bad habits, there is no doubt about it. he has been spitting and saying "shut up" constantly last week. we don't spit at home and we don't speak english at home and we don't say shut up to each other, so both concepts have been picked up from nursery.

my son is no angel, he can play up and he is very energetic, but he is also extremely polite, he says "thanks" to every shop assistant and waiter when we get served and he says sorry and hugs us when he knows he has done something "bad". he is always asking us whether we are happy, "mummy are you happy" ? and then says "i am happy" : ) he hugs and says "i love you" on a daily basis. what i see at home is different from what he is being described as.

i am beginning to resent the nursery for never pointing out the good things my son does and only focusing on the bad. it isn't fair to him and me makes me feel like a failure.

i think hubby and i have decided it is time to move him somewhere less cloistered where the staff take a more fair approach to the fact that he is bilingual and an only child and that these factors make it a little harder for him to integrate. he has only been there a total of 10 weeks, he has had two long 3 week breaks away from the school, lots of disruption plus the move of the school building. they just haven't given him enough time to adjust and he is only 3.5 not 10 years old.

sorry, but i need to vent off here as i am upset for my son.

"no one has ever raised any issues other than he is extremely energetic and won't sit still for long"
"i honestly can't see why i am bing told that because he can't share his toys well at the age of 3.5, that he has a development problem."

These are all things that can be difficult for a nursery to deal with without extra staff though. The nursery may just be wanting to give him more attention.

People coming into assess him to see if they can get extra funding shouldn;t make you feel like a failure and I don't think it's viewed like that.

For something like pre-school advisory or even an ed psych coming in to observe it would be rare to ask 'permission' because its not a formal assessment. Their job is to advise the nursery - not assess your child- which is why they won't have asked permission. You can certainly refuse if you want to but these sorts of observations are very laid back and are usually about looking at nursery resources as a whole. It may well be the combination of the 2 children that the nursery can't cope with or it may just be that they want advice on tips to say help with circle time (often a 'problem' area- for nurseries - if children have language issues or are excitable- often people like pre-school advisory can have tips- such as 'give the child a carpet square to sit on' which just makes life easier for the nursery). If they were to lead onto anything more formal or some sort of proper assessment then as a parent you would be involved but that doesn't happen very often and without very good reason as resources are so scarce (the problem is usually the opposite - getting proper assessment).

For whatever reason it sounds as if the nursery aren't coping with him as well as they'd like. If they're doing a rubbishy job then the will be told that by the person coming to advise (politely!). Definitely worth asking to talk to the person afterwards - it will give you more idea as to whether the nursery are being useless, or whether they're just looking for an extra pair of hands to help them with the moment to moment care of the children.

It does sound like you need a proper meeting at nursery to go though your concerns - do address their poor communication. Their method of telling you is fairly standard (by which I mean no asking permission because its not an assessment as such- it's to get advice for them), which doesn't mean it's the best way of doing things.

BTW if there is any report written (and it doesn't particularly sound like there will be- initially it is often an observation with verbal tips to the nursery) you will get a copy.

Hiya, I haven't read all the replies, but I read your post last night and have been thinking about you a bit. I have two kids, one is 2.5 and the other one is 9 months old, and we speak french at home (I'm french speaking and my husband is English, and we live in London). However, I made sure that my oldest knew many nursery songs in English, and that I had lots of english books. We go to playgroups with singing in English and story telling at local library and have been doing this since he is one year old. I am hopefull that this will help him when he starts pre-school (hopefully after Easter). Songs and nursery rhymes are a very important part of entry school activities in this country and I think that it will give him a head start even if his English isn't as good as other kids because he is raised in a bilingual family. I am also 'teaching' (big word!) his colors, numbers and shapes in English.

Good luck!

I still think - if you can - find another nursery who will be better able to cope. My dd repeated lots of things she heard at her previous nursery and one particular example was the finally straw. I didn't cause a fuss. I just gave the nursery a term's notice and shortened the hours so she was attending there for only one day, and sent dd for the remaining 4 days at her current nursery.

When I gave the notice they asked for the name of dd current nursery to forward the notes. I gave them the name of the nursery teacher and the address, but strangely, the current nursery never did receive any paperwork!

I don't want to rub salt in the wound, but on reading your post, I'm breathing a huge sigh of relief because I'm so pleased that I moved dd. It can be a dilema whether or not to change nurseries. On reflection, I could have easily been in your shoes had dd remained at her previous nursery.

I spent this month and the last singing with dd "Il pleut, il pleut bergère, Presse tes blancs moutons, Allons sous ma chaumière bergère vite allons". At dd current nursery, they love bilingual children and they teach French nursery rhymes - without the need to employ extra staff! They give parents basic rhymes to sing with their children. Rhymes have been in English, French, German, Spanish, with all this European Union stuff, perhaps that's how it should be?

fwiw the standard of training in most Montessori Nursurys is quite high, I know several people that own/run one and the training they have to go through is very thorough - one nursery is bi-lingual French, one bi-ling german and 2 English speaking only.

I didn't choose this type of education for my DS (who is also 3.5) as he does have special needs. Including a difficulty in playing appropriately (not fixating on one thing and doing it repetitvely) so I wanted him to go somewhere where he would be encouraged to sit for a while and join in with the activety.

I'm sure Yurt will back me up in saying it is nigh on impossible to get funding for extra staff even with a regonised diagnosed special need.

The first few terms at preschool are all about socialisation and 'people' skills, which includes learning to share, participate appropriately, take turns and becoming independent (hand washing, hanging coat up etc)

I would agree with everything nortynamechanger has said.

It is incredibly difficult to get funding for extra staff. Even after my son had been diagnosed with severe autism we still had a battle every term, and ds1's nursery hours were limited to 15 hours as that was all the LEA would fund (actually they'd only fund 12 but I kicked up a fuss).

Montessori does have quite a fixed way - and I think (from the little I know) it does have an emphasis on independence and group behaviour. It maybe that the system isn't suitable for your child. I would think it worth waiting to see what the person coming into observe has to say. She/he might be really helpful.

Perhaps put a call out for moondog as well. She's a SALT with bilingual children herself and a specialism in developmental issues.

Actually I'll email her this thread.

Yurt, thank you - don't think anyone has ever agreed with me on MN before!

LEA are currently only funding an LEA 5 hours (=2 sessions) at DS' mainstraem setting because he also has 2 sessions at local SN nursery, leaving me to pay for the LEA on the other day! Blardy madness

It sounds like changing nursery would be a good idea. My DS2's nursery has a large (ish) outdoor area which is a godsend for the more active children. Does your DS say the current nursery is fun or boring? Does he say what he does enjoy the most? As this might be something to look for in the next place.

Move hik cetainly if you feel so negatively about teh place. don't write off the chance to have him assessed though- asessment doesn't make a child have issues, just identifies any if there.

being bright doesn't write of the possibility of problems either- ds1 is very bright, yet is definitely and decidedly SN.

Its clear you feel very angry about all this, and part of it may be shock. Perhaps move him and keep a listening ear for feedback from the new Nursery? If you hear rhe same story, take it seriously. If not, be glad.

If at some point your child is identified as having some problems though dont feel bad- he's still the same child; my sons with ASD are just as special as any other child and just as loved.

Agree with much of what has been said - just to add that it is really early days for him at Nursery. It takes a while to settle down and from what you say they just want him to conform (without perhaps taking into account some of the surrounding facts.)The environment and what is expected will still be so new to him. Poor you - it is horrible when people raise concerns of any sort about your child. Maybe best to try to look at the assessment as an oportunity and make sure that you are fully involved?

If it helps when ds turned 4 he became thoroughly bored with some of the sitting on the carpet singing type activities at Nursery- he wanted more stimulation. This continued when he started school last September for a little while but a combination of new challenges such as learning to read and write and a firm and motivating teacher has sorted the situation out. Fingers crossed!
Easy to say but try not to worry too much about what the Nursery have said.

nortynamechange- you might not want to be aligned with me though, everyone disagrees with me

They do similar things here. If you have a few more years to go I'd advise applying for a statement. We did actually apply for a statement whilst ds1 was at nursery in the end as I was so fed up with battling every term to maintain 15 hours support. It set the cat amongst the pigeons anyway (and we did get the 15 hours- I think they knew I could quite easily take them to the cleaners for more).

Ahh yurt, the joys of statementing - about to start Feb. SN nursery won't start until reach 3.5. Just collecting dozens of consultant letters and writing my bit for them to present.

Am between devil and deep blue as desperately want him to go m/s but he definately wouldn't cope without LEA.

I like to challenge opinions too (I think that is code for 'I'm rude') and am getting more like this as I age mature

Ah but statementing is so fun- wouldn't know what to do without it!

Which is handy really, given as DS3's lasted just 2 weeks

(hastily looks around for block of ahrd stuff to bash ehad against, as DH getting narked with permanently evolving wall damage)

What the process last just 2 weeks or the statement was in place for only 2 weeks???

In place for 2 weeks

took 8 months- included a delay for a report by SALT and an appeal

but shouldn't scare you hee hee hee

(to be fair, ds1's statement has been in pace since April and seems to be just fine, and had I stuck to my gubs over what i wanted for ds3 - well what i wanted is exactly what they say he now needs: Sn unit)

Getting them into mainstream isn't usually a problem. TBH getting LSA support in mainstream isn't usually a problem (depending on how much you need). Getting a mainstream school where anyone has the faintest idea what they're doing and training for LSA's etc is the problem.

DS1 got full time 1:1 in mainstream but it was useless. We may as well have employed a dog walker (as that's all they did with him, walked round and round and round the school for 4 terms). All the training budget was spent in the first week on someone who left in the second week. Apparently.

It does sound like you are generally not happy with the nursery and this last situation is just the last straw.

I think you should wait until after the assesment, it is not a sign of failure. Actually when I think about it, you should actually see it as a positive thing that they are concerned about your DS's development.

We do tend to take it badly when we are told that our child might need help. The thing is, even if there is a problem, catching it now could make all the difference.

A friend of mine asked her son's nursery teacher if she thought that her son should go to speech therapist. She was told, "oh, yes, he should have started a year ago". She was so angry that they had not said anything.