Dealing with difficult eaters...at what age do you say "that's your meal, you're not having anything else until you eat it" etc etc

[hattyyellow]

Would welcome any help.

We have twin girls who are 2.5 years old.

When they were weaned they were great eaters..everything I gave them they happily ate, all sorts of vegetables and fruit, fish pie, chicken, all flavours and styles of food..I thought I had it cracked..

Then they discovered toddler rebellion..I used to enjoy cooking something for us that they'd also eat but now they're even refusing pasta..They will quite happily eat a meal of "picnic" type food..some cheese, some toast, hummus, some bits of ham, sometimes cucumber and cherry tomatoes, most types of fruit, yogurt..They will also eat scrambled eggs, baked beans and fishfingers...

They will occasionally eat pasta with home made tomato sauce...other recipes which my friends cook for their children who happily eat it seem to fall by the wayside with mine...they won't eat spag bol, macaroni cheese, stew, risotto, chicken dishes, fish pie etc...

I don't think I'm that bad a cook that my cooking is putting them off...they just won't try anything that looks like a proper dish. I've tried putting in lots of cheerfully coloured foods, making the flavour not too bland but not too strong..

DH now thinks we should try the line of "that's your meal so eat it" rather than allowing them to fill up on yogurt/fruit/toast when they don't eat whatever "proper" meal I've prepared...but neither of us wants to see a 2.5 year old go to bed hungry..

What age would you start following this course of action? Any tips for getting them to eat? I try and stay pretty calm at meal times, sometimes I try and coax, sometimes I rename things "mr tumble pasta" etc but they're still not interested...

I'm sure I'm not the only one with toddlers like this with their eating - it's just I haven't met anyone in RL whose toddler seems to do the same...and whenever we go out/or I feel sad that they won't eat the dish that's there..

Just take it away if they're not interested (calm, calm!) and then later offer it again. That is all the microwave in our house is used for! If they are hungry then, then either they will eat it, or they really don't like it - so then cue fruit and toast or whatever?

toddlers OFTEN like to have their food in separate bits - pasta, fine. Bolognese sauce, maybe fine. But spaghetti bolognese? ewww, spew spew, calvin and hobbes says it best

The stuff your children will eat sounds just great great great to me

No need for meal times to be a battle. And when they hit 3 or 4, they'll start experimenting a bit more, and all those wonderful tastes you introduced them to are still there in their mind, so you won't have to reintroduce, it's just a question of them being prepared to experiment with textures and colours and mixes again. I notice there's not a lot of gloopy saucy food on their list, and that's fine too - they are probably enjoying finger food at the moment.

Oh and never offer an alternative at the meal time, only later. That way you don't force them to eat stuff, which I never want to do, but they don't get to give you the runaroundeither!

no twins, so no relevant advice, perhaps.

had the same thing (in fact still having it now that ds is 4).

dh was absolutely incapable of following through on this for some time and would be found sneaking toast and jam up to ds in bed...

my basic principle was to say they didn't have to eat it etc, but to give in on a small glass of milk if they were still hungry at bedtime. This was reasonably effective, actually. The other thing that worked was inviting other children over/eating at their houses. Just breaks the stress as i find ds always eats better elsewhere.

having said that we have slipped again to ds nearly always having different food from us that he will eat - my number 1 thing that I did not want to happen. Having another go this week. Best of luck!

Oh I do this with ds1 - he is 2.5 - and did it with the dds at a similar age. They were terrible eaters. I do still provide an afternoon snack for ds1 even if he hasn't eaten his lunch, and he gets a biscuit with his milk just before bedtime - but no extra stuff if he has not eaten his lunch or tea. He gets the same foods as the rest of the family. He knows the score now and knows that if he does not eat his meal he won't be allowed to fill up even on yoghurt or fruit!

And no I don't know anyone in RL who does the same either - I'm sure they all think I'm really harsh! But my dds (10 and 9 now) are pretty good eaters and know they have to make a good attempt at their meal even if they don't particularly like it.

Ah ds (2.6) is exactly the same, used to eat anything now he turns his nose up a "cooked" meals. He's much like your daughters, loves finger type food.

At lunch times I always make him a dip and give loads of finger foods to dip in it, fortunately he loves fruit so has that for snacks.

At dinner time I put what we're having in front of him, if he eats it great if not I take it away and he gets a yoghurt and milk before bed.

Based on bitter experience, rather on what I would like to see happen, I would suggest you continue to give them the 'picnic' food. The variety ensures all the food groups are covered, there's no battle, and they eat it.

After many meal-time battles, I now find it easiest to give mine what they want (I include DH in this - he's just as fussy as the dch!).

I got fed up with cooking lovely food, only for it to be greeted with groans & turned-up noses. DH asked if I would like to be made to eat something I don't fancy, which made me think AIBU? Hence, give 'em what they like (within reason).

totally agree with emmaagain (again ) your twins diet sounds really great and varied.

My ds is five now and he still avoids things like bolognese and fish pie - all the gloopy stuff. He likes, and I think many children do, things to be more seperate and identifiable.

I felt exactly as you do - fish pie, cauli cheese, etc used to be his absolute favourites. I'm sure he will come back to them though.

When I do Bolognese I put the spaghetti on his plate, AND a tiny bit of the bolognese, but he knows he doesn't have to eat it. I also put a little side plate with cheese and veg for him to help himself to so that I feel he's still getting some good nutrition. And it's not about him feeling he's getting a different meal to the rest of us - he knows he is served up what we're having and the 'side plate' is just extras for all of us as far as he's concerned.

I read Jane Clarke's book recently, it's called 'Yummy' and has some lovely recipes in as well as stuff about child nutrition. I found it well worth a read, v reassuring. Maybe you could have a look.

yes take it away if they don't eat it, don't offer alternatives but make sure they have a good supply of snacks to keep up their blood sugar.

I have had experience of this both ways. My first ds hit the toddler phase and stopped eating all the wonderfully healthy foods he had been weaned on. Being a first time mum I gave into it and have ended up with a fussy eater. He is now 6.5 and slowly slowly over the last couple of years, he eats what I cook, but with many excpetions. My second ds did not get this opportunity. Once he was old enough, he ate what we ate and there were no alternatives (coinciding with the time we insisted on this with older ds). He is significantly less fussy and we rarely have problems with him at meal times. My older ds still needs to have his food very separate on his plate, have meat and veg picked out of any sauce it has been cooked in, etc.

I am pg again with number 3 and I know which way I will be going!

from 18m to just before he turned 4 ds was a really fussy eater..barely ate anything. From about age 3 we did the this is your meal and thats it but it made no difference until he was ready to eat. DD1 is now 2.1yrs and we give her the meal all the family are eating and if she doesnt eat it then thats her choice. She is not given a pudding[yoghurt] if she doesnt eat although I will let her eat fruit afterwards. We always put one thing we know she will eat on the plate[she always eats sweetcorn,cheese or tinned spaghetti] so we know she has eaten something but she tends to turn her nose up at other stuff.

I have twin boys age 3 - they eat everything at nursery (go there 5 days a week) and will not eat exactly the same dish at home. Its all about boundaries, what they can get away with and peer pressure. At nursery they have a room full of kids all eating the same food so they just copy - at home they eat alone at tea time as me and dh eat later, so they just mess about and fiddle with it, giggle whinge and moan. They get three strikes and you're out....1st warning, 2nd warning, then 3rd gets removed and binned. No pudding, no alternatives. Yes they go to bed hungry but it is the only way they learn.

And yes they have learned, they are eating much better, but i have just vowed not to make mealtimes a battle, and not to put too much effort in. They eat properly 5 days a week, so if i can get tuna pasta and chopped toms down them, i'm happy.

Also they will try new things if they are on my plate, so it's a way of finding out what they do and don't like before making a whole meal for them.

Personally i would vow to start your new 'thats it, nothing else' regime at lunchtime, then at least they have all afternoon to realise you were serious and they weren;t getting anything else - then at tea time you gave give the same options, "this or nothing" and they know you are serious so will be more inclined to eat it and won't go to bed hungry.

they are not going to starve after a few days of you putting your foot down, so don't worry, just set aside a few days where you know you may be woken early by two hungry toddlers and stick to your guns.

oh and mine would live off weetabix if they could, so i know they always have a good brekkie.

Cheers so much for all your thoughts and advice, it's really appreciated.

I have a friend for lunch tomorrow with her DD's so am attempting a "proper" meal...the last time my girls ate a proper meal was at her house so I'm hoping the presence of her and children will encourage them!

There's loads of interesting points which I will digest later on (pardon the pun) particulary about food being identifiable..my girls do like to be in control as much as they can and I'd never thought of it like that..finger food means they can choose what they eat rather than everything being mixed up together in a risotto etc..

And about second and subsequent children being better eaters..I am a third child and will happily eat pretty much anything! (although my youngest brother is a nightmare eater, maybe you give up battling again when you get to 4 or more children?)

I'm still undecided about whether to send them to bed hungry though...we had stopped giving them snacks between meals and just brought mealtimes forward a little to get them to eat better..I don't know if snacks would confuse the issue? And they do still seem a bit little to send to bed hungry..but some great great ideas thank you!

I'm already "out" on Mumsnet as an "unfooder". I believe in people eating what they like when they like, and if it's a huge great amount of food in a sitting call it a "meal" and if not,call it a "snack".

toddlers have much littler tummies than us - often they like lots of little eating occasions in a day rather than the three-formal-meals-a-day model (and when you think about it, what's that all about?)

I would never ever send a child to bed hungry because they had not wanted to eat the food I thought they should eat at the time I thought was suitable.

thing that i have just started doing is not to "plate up". I put dishes on the table and allow ds to help himself. this gives him more control and prevents a non hungry boy being faced with a big dish of food he does not want to eat. he is only 2.10 but this is still old enough to get food from saucepan to plate with only minimal mess

That's a good point witchandchips (love your name, is that from Room on the Broom?) - I've had slightly more success when putting a meal on a big plate for them to grab from than putting it straight into their bowls..

Emmaagain I think that's at the heart of what I think, I know deep down I'd really struggle to send them to bed hungry at this age...just wondering at what age it becomes appropriate?

When I was a smug no-children person I used to look with horror at people whose children wouldn't eat really simple dishes when they came to lunch and swear my children would never be that! I don't want to force my girls to eat but I don't want them to be picky eaters who won't eat a simple meal someone has gone to the trouble to prepare...

yup it is from room on a broom

Both mine were easy to feed as toddlers then started closing down the list of foods they liked to a few things. Maybe it is a natural stage of development for some children? They have got better again over time, as some posters have pointed out.

Staying calm is great. Another thing that sometimes works is: if they say they dont like/want someting when I am dishing it, I completely ignore them (act extreme benevolent ignoring) and leave it in front of them, saying 'It's fine, you don't have to eat it.' If it's just a fad and it's food they don't mind they quite often pick at it till it's gone. (I think you have to talk yourself into really not caring either way to make this work.)

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Tbh I have never given ds a choice, he eats what he is given or not at all, god that sounds terrible doesn't it! If I know that he genuinely doesn't like the taste of something I don't give it to him, he doesn't like peas and sweetcorn but every thing else he will eat. He does have his off days when he is a bit picky but generally he is a good eater, which in part I think is down to me not giving in to any faddiness. I don't make an issue of him not eating I just take his plate away but I don't offer him a substitute. If I think he is hungry before bed I will offer him a yoghurt or piece of toast.

I have noticed that all of my friends children eat very well and they are all quite firm with regards to eating. On the other hand a lot of my nieces and nephews are really fussy (dh's nephew will only eat garlic bread and crisps) and I think this is because they are given too much choice.

At this aged my DS1's diet consisted of carrots, peas, sausages and weetabix.

No other meat, no fruit no pasta, no spuds.....Now at 6 he's a great eater. Things started to improve at about 4yrs. Now I can't think of a vegetable he won't eat and the other night he declared Kedegree delicious.

We didn't push it other than there's no pud unless you've tried everything on your plate. This way I could introduce small amounts of something he claimed not to like, but still give him a meal I knew he would eat.

dd2, given the chance, would be an extremely fussy eater. Her pat response for years was "I don't like that" (and still would be if she thought it would make any difference!). At school (until we found out) she was telling the school cook that she didn't like every dish that was offered and the cook was doing her a baked potato instead every day! We had many, many mealtimes with tears and "do I have to eat it?" and "how much more do I have to eat?". Even now, she will try and negotiate to leave half a plateful, then be asking for snacks all evening . If she had her own way, there are probably only about ten foods that she would willingly eat (nine of them being sweet things!). Obviously this is not going to happen!

So yes, I agree it is hard. But definitely worth it in the long run (I hope!!)

It's possible to underestimate how filling snacks can be. Not giving snacks for at least a couple of hours before the meal (I did it for longer if it was a meal I really wanted them to eat )will often make all the difference.