Dealing with difficult eaters...at what age do you say "that's your meal, you're not having anything else until you eat it" etc etc

[hattyyellow]

Would welcome any help.

We have twin girls who are 2.5 years old.

When they were weaned they were great eaters..everything I gave them they happily ate, all sorts of vegetables and fruit, fish pie, chicken, all flavours and styles of food..I thought I had it cracked..

Then they discovered toddler rebellion..I used to enjoy cooking something for us that they'd also eat but now they're even refusing pasta..They will quite happily eat a meal of "picnic" type food..some cheese, some toast, hummus, some bits of ham, sometimes cucumber and cherry tomatoes, most types of fruit, yogurt..They will also eat scrambled eggs, baked beans and fishfingers...

They will occasionally eat pasta with home made tomato sauce...other recipes which my friends cook for their children who happily eat it seem to fall by the wayside with mine...they won't eat spag bol, macaroni cheese, stew, risotto, chicken dishes, fish pie etc...

I don't think I'm that bad a cook that my cooking is putting them off...they just won't try anything that looks like a proper dish. I've tried putting in lots of cheerfully coloured foods, making the flavour not too bland but not too strong..

DH now thinks we should try the line of "that's your meal so eat it" rather than allowing them to fill up on yogurt/fruit/toast when they don't eat whatever "proper" meal I've prepared...but neither of us wants to see a 2.5 year old go to bed hungry..

What age would you start following this course of action? Any tips for getting them to eat? I try and stay pretty calm at meal times, sometimes I try and coax, sometimes I rename things "mr tumble pasta" etc but they're still not interested...

I'm sure I'm not the only one with toddlers like this with their eating - it's just I haven't met anyone in RL whose toddler seems to do the same...and whenever we go out/or I feel sad that they won't eat the dish that's there..

Wow, err...completely agree that their diet is okay and represents a number of healthy food groups..I know I am very lucky that they are not so picky in that respect...

My concern is that I feel they should be able to eat more "traditional" meals so that when we go to eat with family and friends they will eat some of a proper meal, rather than expecting people to start preparing separate food..getting out cucumber and grating cheese etc when there's a perfectly good meal on the table..or if we go as a family to eat at a pub or restaurant it would be nice if they would eat something from the menu rather than picking at bits of cucumber from my sandwich...

It's not end of the world type scenarios..but just looking for some useful advice..of which I have recieved plenty - thank you !

what's cook chill stuff, praline? is it a hot meal? dd's only just started nursery but is so exhausted coming back from it that i've started giving her a main meal at lunchtime and she's getting supper on her nursery days.

Ah Hatty, you may be asking for the world there... Surely most restaurants serve chips though?

I think meals out are the ones I worry about least - they are usually not too frequent, so what they eat not so important, .. and.. there's always a pudding to fill up on. Problem sorted. When I'm out what they're eating is the last thing I want to be thinking of...

They're eating loads. Stop worrying.

go to Amazon (or somewhere) and look for books by Ellyn Satter - particularly "Child of Mine" books. She writes about how to deal with these feeding issues. Quick summary is that parents are responsible for providing healthy food and a pleasant mealtime atmosphere and children are responsible for deciding which and how much of the provided food to eat. No bribery, no cajoling, no fights, and no short-order cooking. I know many people think that she and her books are genius.

2 yr old tops, personally. But then am mean mummy.

My dd is 2.11 and being a nightmare about eating at the moment. Stuff she always loved she now picks at, but she freaks out if we take it away. A very experienced nanny I know has suggested putting an egg timer where she can see it and when it runs out after 10 mins or whatever, the food goes, no matter how big the tantrum.

All I can say in reassurance is I was the world's worst eater, touching no fruit, veg, cheese until I was about 15 and now I eat virtually everything and love cooking. My mum still can't believe it if I eat something like cabbage. BUT I do have a pathetic immune system and I do wonder if that's because my diet as a child was so limited, so I really think it is important to keep trying but also to keep your calm (which I am rubbish at) while doing so
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hi everyone!

what a good supportive thread! I have a 22 month old and she is just the same, ate wonderfully when she was weaned, and when she turned 1 she just started refusing all those lovely meals i cooked so lovingly. so now i am in the same situation: i can count on one hand the foods she will eat happily. it's definitely true abt separating the food though. Mine will eat all the broccoli (the only veg she eats) first, then some tiny morsels of chicken, then a few mouthfuls of PLAIN rice (she wont do fancy sauces).

Oh and of course she subscribes to the universal toddler preference for nuggets, frankfurters, fish fingers and fries.

I have tried to just let her deal with her food by herself without interfering but the problem is that she will just throw the food all over the place, or tip the whole plate on the floor. I have told her off time and again, smacked her hand etc, but sometimes she remembers and mostly she doesnt.

What should i do? be calm and ignore? or keep up the discipline? Should i just let her play and play and experiment untl she gets it out of her system? does anyone else have a kid that does that and if they did at what age will they calm down and feel they need to be tidy?

I know a lot of it has to do with her motor skills not being brilliant yet, and not being able to differentiate the difference between me tipping food in the bin and her tipping food on the floor, etc... but GOD ITS HARD!

Hatty
No time to read through all this thread now, but just wanted to offer my sympathies. My ds (nearly 4) is exactly the same and dd (2.5) not far off although a better eater generally. You are not alone as neither of mine will eat spag bol, shepherds pie, mac cheese etc all the same things you mention. I get really fed up of giving them the same things all the time. I am about to become a SAHM for a while (gulp) when we move house and I have no3 baby so I am determined that I will get them to change but not sure how either...

Ps at least yours are eating fruit and veg as whilst dd is a fruit monster, ds will not touch it with a bargepole and veg is very limited too ...

Dd 3yrs has to try all new food and decide whether she likes it. Not just smelling or looking, but actually putting a small piece in her month. If she really doesn't like the food I've cooked, she has a piece of bread and butter and that's it. If she has a go and eats a little she can have fruit, yoghurt and cheese for dessert. I don't force her to eat anything though and she rarely eats all on her plate, but she has healthy snacks throughout the day and lots of fruit and veg. I don't agree with forcing children to eat but equally I'm not cooking more than one meal a night.

Another useful strategy might be to provide really nourishing food for snacks - grated cheese or a little piece of ham or chicken, or smoked salmon, or carrot sticks or fruit, or a little bowl of rice, or a sausage to eat off a fork.

and then if and when supper is refused because there was too much snacking earlier when they actually were hungry, well, the snacks are the kinds of food that are really good for the child, so no need for worry.

If the snacks are all biscuits and bread, there's maybe less sustenance in that.

I do a lot of putting left overs in the fridge and then microwaving when the moment is right.

I think the formal meals with conversation and no snacking between can be introduced when child is interested in sitting for formal meals with conversation, and until then it's a matter of a refuelling stop

I think if you force children to eat food you just end up with adults who won't eat anything. My father was forced to eat everything on his plate and from the day he left home refused to touch any of the foods he was forced to eat ever again (which includes almost all vegetables). Dh was also forced and hassled to eat. He still won't eat any 'childish' food - nothing mushy or mashed, no spag bol or stew, not even gravy on meat. It is a PITA. So think of poor future partners before you hassle your kids to eat food they don't like!

I was never forced to eat anything. I was picky as a child and a lot of food disgusted me (I remember I wouldn't eat bananas because of the tiny black specks in the middle - they made me want to throw up). But now I eat everything and I have no food issues.I think if you are forced to eat food that disgusts you that disgust stays present with you, instead of fading away naturally.

Maybe some of the posters are right when they say kids are being manipulative but they can't manipulate you if you aren't worried! I honestly do not care if my ds eats a 'proper' meal. It helps that he was a chubby baby and is now a big boy - maybe I would be different if he was skinny. But I also read in 'The Mighty Toddler', by Robyn Barker, that toddlers only actually eat one proper meal (by our standards) every two or three days. She says they don't actually need that much. I have found that very reassuring. So I offer my ds good food. If he refuses it I offer one easy alternative (eg if he won't have his weetbix for breakfast, he gets toast). At dinner there is usually a range of food (vegies, meat, grains, salad) so I expect him to find an alternative in what is provided If he still doesn't want it, I presume he is not hungry. If he is hungry later he gets a snack. I expect toddlers to need snacks between meals anyway, so I don't see this as an imposition. As a result, I'm quite happy with how ds eats. He may not eat much at some meals but he eats a variety of food over a period of time and he can be quite adventurous and suprising in what he likes. I think a lot of worry is about perception and expectations rather than whether the child is getting a decent diet.

love your relaxed approach, emma. Our children will get there eventually ...

My boys actually eat better when we are out - mainly due to me being more relaxed about it - I haven't spent ages cooking it, I'm also eating myself so am not constantly saying, eat your dinner boys, come on, just one more mouthful. I always order something diff from them, so they can try whats on my plate and i can find another food they like.

Mealtimes used to be the bane of my life, bt since I only feed them at weekends now, I really cannot be bothered to get stressed about it. They are very verbal they will say 'mummy i'm hungry' if they are, and then they get their choices "shall mummy make you some yummy tuna sandwiches? or would you like tuna pasta?" they pick one or the other, i toddle off, and if half gets eaten i feel at ease!

We do softplay at least once at a weekend, so we do lunch there sometimes - lots of other kids round eating, they eat well and they get to play afterwards (just bloody expensive!).

I do understand the OP's concerns about going to bed hungry - I remember many a screaming hissy fit (mine not theirs) at tea time, watching them push food away and me panicking that this would mean they would be up in the night if they didn't eat. One day I got to my limit i think, dinner got chucked in the bin, they got heaved out of highchairs and pushed into the lounge while i locked myself in the kitchen throwing pots and pans around chuntering to myself. They got put to bed and slept through. Since then I have realised it doesn't really matter what happens in a day they love their sleep and will sleep til 7am no matter what. They eat 2 - 4 weetabix EACH at breakfast and I think this has a lot to do with their food consumption in the day. One of my dt's is skinny, but he never stops, runs everywhere, so is burning off all he eats - the other is a tubby little soul, so he's not malnourished.

I'm not sure what point I was getting to here - but I guess what i want to say is they are YOUR kids, and they are also twins, which makes them unique from singletons - it can be a bonus that they learn from each other - one eats the other follows - but also they can compete. My two are forever trying to outdo each other. Arfa will refuse to eat his dinner, his plate gets taken away, Edward will then point out loudly that he is eating his mummy and that arfa is a naughty boy - this annoys arfa, who will now not eat his dinner to make a point.

The one thing above all else to remember is, it really doesnt matter - it honestly doesn't...let them pick, let them have some choice and believe me you WILL see a difference in the next few months, just DO NOT make it into an issue they are aware of.

Oh one example for the poster who says toddlers can't be manipulative:

Yummy shepherds pie, made by daddy and mummy was reheating. Put in front of hungry toddlers (they had told me they were hungry) and Edward said, don't like that mummy. So I ignore him and focus on Arthur who says, Can I have some peas please. I go and happily make peas (yay my boy wants peas!) Dish up peas amidst much praise for being such a good boy for wanting peas. Don't like it mummy, plate gets pushed away.

Cue mummy going into meltdown. Dinner gets launched across kitchen, smirk appears on Arthurs face......

Hmmm, but no it wasn't manipulation.....

tryingtoleave - you have it spot on, they can be manipulative if they know you care, and both mine do because i have made such a big deal of mealtimes in the past.

You post was very reassuring, thankyou!

Following on from some other posters who talk about how being forced to eat as children affected them in later life, there is a great section in Penelope Leach where she points out that it's not great to associate food with treats, punishment or comfort as a lot of adults have problems with those attitudes to food. She says to keep the emotional temperature down when it comes to food for these reasons, apart from it being counter-productive.
So, it would be ok to take away unfinished food, but not to make it into a punishment by saying 'You'll go to bed hungry'.
In the same way, it's not good to withold pudding if you have one, it makes it seem more of a prize, and the 'healthy' food more of a chore.
I don't think children are manipulative to be mean, but they can certainly sense what a parent is interested in....

Glad I was reassuring, Meeely (the book I mentioned is actually great for that). I was a bit afraid after I posted that I would either sound like I was smug or that I was starving my child. I have my worries and issues (they're mostly on the sleep page!) but just not about food.

going to bed hungry is not a punishment its just a natural consequence of not eating food when it is offered.

Oh, and to make it work you have to be prepared to throw stuff away without resentment if no-else wants it - even if it contains best organic chicken or whatever... (Obviously you can freeze what you can - my bugbear is when it's the extra meal I've frozen specially and the whole lot has to go in the bin because it won't keep.)

Join the club Hatyellow!! I have a 3yr old who used to eat everything. It was my standard gloat, sleeps well, eats well..... then he hit 1.5 and that was it. He regularly goes through phases of refusing his "favourite foods", drives me mad.

i have found that casseroles aren't great for him, even though he used to love them. He prefers identifyable food. We often put meat in a little pot for him, as he isn't a great meat eater, he then gets a star for each bit he eats. I'm very lucky that he will always eat fruit, veg, sandwiches, roast pots... but I wish he would eat more grown up stuff like pasta and sauce - though he does eat pasta and cheese.

DH and I can never decide about the "3 strieks and your out" thing. He is so convincing when he says he's going to eat it, but we know he won't the moment he messes about. We don't give pudding either if nothing eaten, and he gets nothing til his next meal.

I try and give main meal at lucnhtime, so if he refuses it, at least there is still teatime.

uh oh, DD has just ramped up the screaming, best go!

Mine also loves picnic style meals so i try and make lunch picnic style. Serving it in a little lunchbox with a tiny toy or some stickers or something also goes down a storm.
He will eat gnocchi and chips but no other forms of potato whatsoever. Yes to pasta or tortellini/ravioli with no sauce except bit of grated cheese but will occasionally have spag bol and loves pesto but only on gnocchi not pasta???WHY
Eats pizza but picks the veggies off. Will eat sweetcorn but basically no other veg.
Fruit-apple slices and grapes the odd banana that's about it. Occasional fromage frais/yoghourt.Always drinks milk and eats cereal and or toast.
In desperation I've started mushing up avocado/ bits of broccoli and adding it to pesto add loads of veg to bolognese and even juice carrots to mix with apple juice. Make my own pesto and pizza dough and have attempted gnocchi. Next step-home made pasta???? He is turning me into Anna bloody del Conte. I work four days a week and really have better things to do wih my time than pander to pint sized dictators but I seriously wory about fruit and veg intake and that he is having too much processed stuff. My nanny is lovely but will go for the easy option (gnocchi and pesto/fishfingers/sweetcorn ) rather than trying to push new foods.
It is such a comfort to hear from everyone else as I too feel like a dreadful failure as a mother when we are with family or friends (which we are a lot) and he kicks up a fuss and refuses to even try the food. Like the OP everyone I know with a toddler of a similar age seems to have a good eater. And he is small and underweight too.

Don't know if it's been said already but my ds (2.8yrs) really enjoys eating a proper meal (chilli, stew, casserole, fish pie etc) if he has been allowed to help cook. I know it is a big hassle but then they feel involved and know what's gone into a meal, they learn about different foods and cooking as well. He stands on a chair at the work top and I give him little tasks like chopping mushrooms with a normal dinner knife. He will also try to taste most stuff and now loves raw pepper and carrots. He usually then wolfs down whatever it is that we've made and says, 'I made this, it's yummy!'