have given the ultimate punishment - no Xmas pressies!

[xmasfortunecookie]

I'm fed up. Ds(4) has "anger management" problems. He came home today saying he'd hit his teacher (again)! Frustrated & furious, I told him he'd get no Xmas pressies from me because bad children who hit don't deserve presents. I went on to say that if grownups hit each other, they risk going to prison & there is no excuse for his lack of control. I admit I'm desperate but maybe I've gone too far? What do you think?

Wifi needs a smack!!

Disiplining a child is not achieved by smacking them its a form of abuse,

And you know what wifi instead of a smack I send you a hug! You need one with an attitude like that you sad sad bully.

Back to OP...

I would forget on this occasion what you said about presents, its days away yet and never a good idea to hold punisments for days anyway.

I would have a meeting with the teacher after Christmas and ask how she feels about his behaviour.

At home I would keep punishments simple and immediate. Don't threaten things that won't happen for days. He will have forgotton the crime by then.

I would ask to be refered to someone else to get further advice and support. You seem to be struggling to bond and are tying yourself in knots.

In the meantime keep things simple and straightforward for DS. Don't give lots of options and instructions. Keep it basic and don't expect too much too soon. He is still young and with a bit of help I am sure you can't get through this and come out feeling better about your parenting.

Have a nice Christmas and look on it as a fresh start, keep focusing on the positives

IME stories don't always work though do they? I wasn't hit and I'm okay. I was hit and I'm okay.

However you choose to discipline your ds, you asked about this incident. I would say talk to him and work out some acceptable anger releasing actions

In other words, instead of hitting when he is angry he could:

Tell the teacher, try to explain what he is pissed off about, rip up paper (not someone's work ), walk away, find somewhere okay to shout and scream until the moment passes, count, laugh, do something/anything that isn't violent.

That was off the top of my head so likely to be full of unhelpful advice and omissions

I'm so desperate that any response from you lot is a godsend! Seriously, it's lovely to have all this support. Thank you.

I agree with that slur and add that when he is angry if he can identify it then it can be dealt with in a suitable manner.

When I ask why he's angry, he says "because", or changes the subject, or looks away, or giggles or all of the above...

Well as I said in the earlier thread my 11 year old half the time doesn't even remember why she is angry but has the emotion.

I guess its up to you to catch him each day after school and before bed (tell him he get a reward if he does ie xmas gifts)and ask him to tell you all the good and bad things that happened today then hug him and tell him well done for expressing himself verbally instead of phsically.

Its really alot more work for the parent and its not easy but should pay off in the long run.

When you commucicate with him positvly he will begin to do the same it may take time though. Often we blame the child when it is our own lack of communication playing a huge part in the negative behaviour. Believe you me I know as I am on of them parents!!

Another book (I know, I know, we keep recommending them) that sounds as though it would be good with your DS is Raising Your Spirited Child.

to the op -

it is always ok to back down to your kids

it sets them a GOOD example and shows that it's fine to change your mind

just sit down with him when he is in a responsive mood and explain why you said what you did - that you were upset that he had behaved in an unacceptable way - if sees that you will back down sometimes then he will feel he can to

i have a difficult relationship with my dd[teen] because we are very similar and clash - in the past if i have exploded with rage or said something very unfair;when i've calmed down i will always apoligise if i feel i acted badly to her - and she does the same

My DS went through a stage of having completly manic rages. We talked about it and again he couldn't really give reasons (he was 5/6/7). What we did discuss was more appropriate actions he could take if he was getting angry and we came up with the idea of a emergency stop word (i was something like fluffy teddy).

He knew if he just wanted to stop and hug he could use this word. So if he felt he was getting out of conrol and things were getting out of hand he could say this. The deal was I had to stop too and just hug him for a minute then we would talk more calmly about the situation (without over analysing it). Take care that he doesn't see the word as a get out of jail free card to stop you telling him off. More like a time out.

I found he was scared and confused when he got angry, and me shouting at him or getting all excited wasn't helping him calm down.

We went from chairs being flung down the stairs and violent crying to a quite boy who trusted me more and learned when to backdown and as they say "take a telling".

It can be easy to get into a situation when a child feels they have too much control, too many options and too much going on ,and will be overwhelmed by it all, sometimes it is nice to have mummy in control setting boundries and roping them in.

I am not saying this is what was happening but prefives aren't always very good at reasoning things out, discussing options and coming up with solutions.

I am also not keen on rewards that cannot be carried on every time eg put your seatbelt on and get a big sweety. Simpler in for the future if told seatbelt on or I cannot drive the car, as you will get hurt. You can then say the same thing everytime.

Helps to keep the punishments relative to the crime. E.G. Misuse of a toy toy removed from child for the rest of day. Perhaps for kicking teacher no favorite programmes that night and taken to apologise to teacher next day, or even taking time to draw a nice picture to say sorry. Makes them think more about the other person rather than just feeling hard done by themselves.

Sorry I will stop going on now .

Agree with Maxi that it is OK to back down and explain that you were angry too, and that sometimes we do the wrong thing when very angry, you are showing him that you are thinking of others feelings and about the consequences of your actions.

Sorry I said I would shut-up . .

xmas, that's what I mean about not having inappropriate expectations of a little boy - he won't be able to describe his feelings in the way an adult can.

Some good advice here, but you could also, when he's calmer, get him to draw a picture about being angry. Maybe a picture of 'angry' ds if he is confused at the idea of drawing how he feels.

As his teacher says, his drawings of "angry" are very colourful! Other children scribble hard in black but ds fills the page with all kinds of little scribbles in different colours.

And here's another weird thing: went to school this morning to drop off dc & had a word with ds' teacher - he did not hit her yesterday!! Why on earth did he come home & tell me he did? Why bring all that anger on to himself? I'm even more confused now and certainly v. worried.

There you are! I told you it was likely to be a very different story to the one he told you. I have learned with three kids to never entirely accept their word at that age, even if they seem to be confessing to something.
Often they really don't fully understand the difference between truth and fantasy. They say things because they are exciting or what they would liked to have happened, or just to see your reaction to something shocking.
It isn't anything to worry about. It's really normal. maybe your tendancy to worry and panic a bit actually makes him slightly more likely to do this, as he is fascinated by your reaction. Children are interested in seeing your reactions, even if they think they might be angry/cross/irritated. It's how they work out how minds work.
Next time, remember this and try to take a deep breath and calm down.
Laugh about it.

Wow. Now there's some food for thought.

this episode is also a demonstration of
a very good reason NOT to smack your kids! How awful would you feel now if you'd hit him as well as gone mad at him, and he didn't actually do anything!
Four is very little. Even if he does get cross sometimes, it's normal for four year olds to lose their temper sometimes - plenty of them can't control themselves all the time simply because they are only four. Of course you work with him on controlling his expression of his anger, but to expect him never to feel cross is really asking too much I think.

My baby boy! I can't wait to give him a cuddle.

Excellent plan!!

Have just read through the thread and am so delighted that it can be resolved without any further heartache.

Have a lovely Christmas, xmas & family - with lots of pressies .

I was soooo upset last night & everyone's advice was such a comfort. Ds, although he doesn't know how or why, and I are very grateful to you all!

Oh, thank goodness!

Happy Christmas to you and your lovely DS. He sounds fab, actually

Hurrah! Blimey, the workings of a small boy's mind... fascinating. So difficult to keep up with them.

Bad idea to withhold Xmas pressies for bad behaviour.

My POL's (both over 70...) have told my partner that he won't be getting a proper Xmas pressie from them this year because they disapprove of some of the things he has said to them this year... [eye roll emoticon]

So are they also planning to follow WiFi's advice and hit him, Anna?

(really pleased to hear you sounding so much more positive today, fortunecookie ... and what a reminder of the mysterious workings of the four-year-old mind...)