have given the ultimate punishment - no Xmas pressies!

[xmasfortunecookie]

I'm fed up. Ds(4) has "anger management" problems. He came home today saying he'd hit his teacher (again)! Frustrated & furious, I told him he'd get no Xmas pressies from me because bad children who hit don't deserve presents. I went on to say that if grownups hit each other, they risk going to prison & there is no excuse for his lack of control. I admit I'm desperate but maybe I've gone too far? What do you think?

xmas it sounds as though he is very normal and your expectations are a bit skewed. It does also sound as though you don't like him very much. I would seriously consider talking your own feelings through with someone - I hope that doesn't sound rude, because I really don't mean it to!

Ok what you need is consistency.

I deal with teenagers with behavioural problems and half the time their problem is a lack of discipline and consistency at home.

Never ever threaten to do something that you cannot do. Like the banning pressies, he knows this is an empty threat, you know it is an empty thread, so he disregards what you say.

Think of some doable punishments and let him know what they will be. For instance, he has to sit on the bottom stair for 4 mins until he says sorry. Or he gets a favourite toy taken away for a day.

Don't change your mind. Once you've settled on a punishment you have to go through with it, you can't go back on it just because he gives you a hug. He needs to learn that actions have consequences.

Punish the deed straight away, not later on or tomorrow. One punishment for one wrongdoing, don't say things like "because you were naughty yesterday you can't have xxx today".

You fear your son, a 4yo, and he knows this. Atm he rules the roost. You have to take back control. Be firm but fair. Never do anything in anger. Explain to him why you are punishing him.

Remember to reward any good behaviour. Tell him what a good boy he is, even if he's just sat and played on his own for 5 mins.

Do a star chart and at the end of the week, if he gets an achieveable number of stars, you both do an activity together, like baking biscuits or going to the park. Kids like that get an awful lot from personal contact, if you just get him a new toy and expect him to play with it by himself that will not work.

He craves attention. Atm he is getting more attention from being bad, than he is from being good. So don't go on and on about his misdeeds, punish him and then forget all about it, don't ever bring up past things he has done. Give yourself a target of praising him at least 5 times a day and making some time to do something with him, just you and him.

You need to work on your relationship with him. This little lad desperately wants some kind of relationship with you and this is the only one he has so far. Don't let him grow into one of the teens I have at school. You can turn this around.

I adore him but the realisation came gradually, not all at once as it was with dd. I can't help it. You can't choose how you feel about someone, even if it is your own baby. I think I love him even more than dd because he is so... so... himself! Dd has quite a lot of self-posession & can be quite scheming. It's so weird to be talking like this! It's only on MN where I can be really, really honest.

good advice cliff

You need to draw up a battle plan.

For both of you.

Work on your relationship.

xmas, I really feel for you - my ds is 4 and beyond trying - he dislocated his 2 yo brothers arm twice last month and then I caught him standing on his baby sister's chest. There was a really good thread on here about 4 year old boys about a month ago in the behaviour section which really helped me, and I am also HUGELY helped by Tanya Byron's book - Your Child Your Way - much more than just another parenting book. Sending you a big hug.

No, I don't love him more. Just differently. I think that, on analysis, he is more like me & I was so not in control for most of my late childhood/teens/'20s. I suffered & have changed my behavior because of that. I think it's very, very hard for me to see my child expressing the emotions I've struggled so hard to control!

xmasfc your description of your baby coming out after caesarean sounds just like my DD. She is far more demanding than my DS and for a while before I realised what was happening, I was giving her much more attention simply because she demanded it and he didn't, so he got sidelined. Five and a half years later, I still have to remind myself not to sideline DS. But she's not angry with me, because I'm not angry with her. I just had to adjust to her different personality.

Good advice Cliff.

xmas honesty helps. It sounds like there's frustration in you from way back.

He is still very little. Think of the long term, in the end you want him to be gentle and loving and know for sure he is loved.

You can let him know he is loved immediately. So that even if he is horrible toe-rag sometimes, you can say you still love him and will demonstratre that love by thinking about the things he'd like to have at xmas.

Getting him to be gentle and loving will take time, so acknowledge that and decide an approach. Once decided try not to blow up over the individual incidents, focus on the longer term and react accordingly. So instead of immediate anger bans try measured, expected consequences and discussion?

I know that sounds bollocks cos in practice its so hard. But keep in mind that if you have a plan you can react more calmly.

God, being a mum is so difficult! But such a joy in a strangely triumphant & self-effacing way.

This evening my dd was agonising over God & why does he let people suffer & die? How can God be loving if he can allow such terrible things to happen? Jeepers, she's only 7!

Oh that rings very true as well. DD is just like me, personality wise and sometimes seeing yourself in a tantruming child is unnerving and unpleasant. And I can also see so clearly where my mother went wrong with me. She obviously had no idea how to cope with my personality and simply observed how different I was to my sister. My relationship with ehr, unsurprisingly, is shit.

oooh there's a wicked book for your dd....
hang on.

I think what really did it for me today was that I was knocking myself out trying to find him a good CD player as an Xmas pressie. Nothing too complicated but sturdy. He loves, loves music but is way too young for an ipod or to fiddle about with my aging stereo in the living room. So I found him this great (I hope) radio/alarm clock/CD player. I was really pleased & anticipating the look on his face on Xmas morning. Then he comes home & tells me he's hit his teacher, who's lovely btw, and the irony was just too much.

I went in to him when he was in his bed & told him I was sorry for being so cross but that he really, really must not hit anyone for any reason. I told him how much I love him & how special he is to me, even if he's been very naughty.

But what do I do about the pressies? Clearly we can't all be opening gifts (especially his sister) while he sits there with nothing but in my desperate state, I reasoned that if it was a punishment that was so extreme without being violent, he'd realise that hitting is NOT acceptable. How can I back down now?

the philosophy files

Highly recommended by mate of mine

"even if he's been naughty"

No, you don't do that, that's counteracting a positive with a negative. That's saying that you are a naughty little boy who doesn't deserve to be loved but I love you anyway. Not good.

Have you found any of my posts useful at all?

Shit. I don't have a clue, do I?

I really think it is okay to back down when you know you've reacted harshly. It doesn't mean you lose all authority it means you're fallible which is ok.

Tell him you were angry and because you were angry you wanted him to realise how much he'd upset you so you did something a bit harsh or mean. Which is what he did to his teacher.

Say you lashing out wasn't fair so you will give him the presents you spent so long buying and considering. Ask him what he could do instead of lashing out next time he is angry.

Tell him you know its hard dealing with frustration and anger but that you'll work it out together.

Give him his presents. If you don't it will be sad. Plus you know that'll be the xmas he's dure to remember and remind you of for all eternity

Tell him that you feel so angry you would like to deny him Xmas pressies, but when you thought about it you realised that's not the right way forward, either. If you show yourself as human who can make a mistake, fix it and say sorry, you're modelling good adult behaviour.
Denying pressies just sounds vindictive.
Do let him have most the pressies you intended.
Talk to the teacher about all the circumstances before you judge how bad the incident was, and keep trying to work with him in the meantime.
4yo boys are notorious for lack of impulse control, you must realise. Rumour is that a reception child head-butted a teacher at DS school, few years back....
Surely if the incident was that bad the teacher or school would have spoken to you themselves?

Have put the Philosophy Files in my basket. It will have to wait for Jan as credit card maxed out. Thank you, I need all the help I can get!

think that sounds a little harsh for a 4yr old

. However having said that DS1 (7) has overstepped the mark (repeating the same "offences" far too often recently) and as a result "father christmas isn't happy"....and DS2's presents may be (actually probably will be) slightly more interesting and fun than his...

xmas. Neither did I. We learn as much as they do.

My 4yo is pretty tiring too and we often joke that with a less disciplined family he'd run riot! Sometimes it feels as though we are constantly on top of him, like I'm working at home as well as at work! I lose my temper too and end up screaming at them at times. But you go over that in your head and think about what you could have done differently, then next time you do it another way and it works.

Make a plan.

Yes Cliff, my bad choice of words in haste of posting.

Not 'even' if he's horrible etc

but that even when I feel angry I can still love. It is okay to be upset/angry at how he has been behaving but you do still love him even though you are angry and have shouted/punished. Sometimes when people shout at us it is easy to think they don't like us. It is worthwhile reminding them that we do.

Does that make sense CLiff?

we have been having problems with our 11 year daughter, I know shes a bit older but this may help.

She finds it real difficult to express her anger and leaves everything build up until she explodes.

What we are doing to help her is each day spending some time going over all the small things that made her angry that day, somtimes theese are tiny things but when theese aren't dealt with they grow with all the other things.

She is then full of anger and doesn't know why cause half the time she has forgotten the reason but holds the emotion. which is causing her stress and anxiety.

We are teaching her to write down every day what is going on for her emotionally and she is responding well and seems to be alot better.

Maybe if you talk to him ask him why he behaves badly and always reassure him that it is his behaviour that you do not like but you love him.

I know its hard to do when they are behaviing badly I struggle myself to do this same thing but it works.

Maybe you have some issues yourself that he is picking up on also which is unsettling him.

Homeopathy could be good from him or reiki.

Don't ban his xmas pressies that is gonna cause more anger!

Tell him if he can tell you each time he feels angry from now till xmas he will be rewarde with his gifts for being positve and verbalising how he feels instead of lashing out.

good luck hth.

Slur? Are you Xmas?

...Also, at end of the day, whatever your DS does in school time the school has to handle. Speak to the teacher, apologise if you feel the need, and Ask them how they would like to handle incidents like this, including punishment schemes or rewards/incentives for doing better next time. The 3 of you constructively discuss together, what he might do instead the next time he feels so angry. Then back the teacher up 100% reminding your DS at home why and how to be good instead of out of control.