Good old fashioned smacking

[heepie]

I don't believe it did me any harm and I do wonder why the previous generation, ie mine, was so much better behavied than the current, ie my kids. I find the softly softly, ignore bad reward good behaviour does not work with a strong willed child and find myself more and more thinking what was wrong with a good old smack? Peeing on the floor right in front of you with a big smile on the face surely warrants more than the removal of a star on the reward chart? And whacking little brother over the head with a heavy object? Not eating something very nice and edible that I have slaved over in the kitchen? Why must we never tell our children to eat what is in front of them when I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I was finished? I don't have an eating disorder. I think it's time I through all the modern how to bring up children books out of the window and remember how it was done when I was a child? Anyone else feel this way?

but we plainly are

right, just that is what heepie seems to think....

Does seem to be rather implied though doesn't it ?

can't say i was ever more than transiently upset, however EXCEPT for the time i was smacked for doing something my brother had done..cross about that for weeks. so must have usually agreed that justice was being done (appreciate that not at age two).
i don't expect the smacke were really any different, but we were made to think about how naughty we'd been and which naughtinesses were worst (e.g. an extra smack for lying about it)

heepie, I'll try and answer your question because it does seem pointless and destructive to condemn people for smacking if you can't offer alternative ideas. However I will make the following caveats: a)I am not in any way a perfect or even a very good parent, b)it's possible (not sure yet) that my 4yo has some SN so his needs may be a bit different c)I have done this on lots of threads like this before and been gleefully shot down, so if I appear defensive I apologise!

I don't have a nice easy non-challenging child, I have two extremely sparky and difficult and complicated children who drive me round the twist. It's not that I don't get angry enough to smack, it's just that I couldn't even if I wanted to - it's a total no-no for me, maybe due to my background, and also because as I've said I think it's wrong.

I find ds1 (4.9) behaves much better if I ive him lots and lots of notice and warning before transitions - changes between activities are one of his major flashpoints (anything from tidy-up time to going home from the park, or going out). He is calmer and more manageable when he knows exactly what's coming. I try to minimise things like running out into traffic by having him hold on to the pushchair/my hand over roads, and then if he behaves properly he earns the right to walk without holding on. If he buggers me about he has to hold on again.

Similarly if he does play up and home - deliberate naughtiness - I usually try and think of a consequence that actually seems to proceed logically from what's he's doing wrong (not being allowed out in the garden because he's taken his shoes off and put them in the bin, for example). I find that that way I can apply the consequence without having to get angry - I just explain how what he has done has led to what's happening, and what a pain that is for both of us, so he might want to do it differently next time.

I do sit him on the stairs occasionally for the sort of really disordered behaviour that can't be reasoned with, sometimes I'll sit next to him until he's calmed down and then talk to him.

As I said though parenting chez Greensleeves is still very much a work in progress and I do NOT see myself as perfect (or even adequate most of the time). I don't think that conflicts with expressing a conviction that hitting children is wrong - to me, it is wrong.

Enid is a much better mum than me, get her to answer as well

Well said greensleaves.... that was a good post.

I have a very strong willed 3 year old. I usually try distraction or talking to her or threatening to withdraw treats (like sweets or television) in the first instance. If she really 'kicks off on one' I would remove her to another room to 'calm down'. Most importantly of all I try (don't always manage, I'm afraid) to be calm and consistent. I would then try to talk to her when she had calmed down.
What you've got to remember is that you are the adult and you are the one in control. I admit that I have on occasion lost control and hit my children. I'm not proud of it and ultimately I don't think it works. Mind you, if hitting children when you're lost control is bad, I think that deliberately hitting them as a means of punishment is worse. One of my over-riding memories of childhood is of being smacked for things I didn't even realise I'd done. I hadn't been deliberately 'bad' or 'naughty', I'd just been a normal, lively child.

I think that if you have the intelligence and compassion to find ways of disciplining your children without resorting to physical or emotional abuse, then yes, you are a better parent.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Who has said that non-smackers need to apologise? I think we are in the ascendancy on this thread, and indeed most MN smacking threads...

I was hit when growing up with hands, hairbrushes, shoes and a riding whip - never by my father. The last time my mother hit me was in front of others and a hard slap across my face. I don't remember the infraction. My mother was also emotionally cruel and with some evident satisfaction. I have never hit my dds although there are times when I don't know how I managed not to. Hitting is generally out of anger not always started by the child but generally inflammed by them, I believe this makes hitting in any circumstance wrong. On saturday my dd1, aged 5 tried my patience all day in all manner of ways, eventually she was sent to bed early. this has never happened before and I hope won't happen again, she and I were both very upset. Sunday was a much happier day. I will never hit my children it only results in humiliation, fear and continued unhappiness. If it worked surely a child would only be smacked once in its life.
Sorry for rambling.

I was 19 at the time of the last smack - it didn't work

Agree jelly.It is not good or old fashioned it is violent and aggressive and a sure abuse of power.Horrible

I have to say that my advice to any mother of a strong willed child, and I honestly can't think of many people who don't think that of their toddler, pick your battles. The strong-willed bit is obvious when you are in conflict. So if you are in conflict most of the time, it will seem like your child is the most stubborn on the face of the earth.

Some days I think dd is an angel, others she is a holy terror. And it is all down to the amount of conflict. And I know it sometimes can't be avoided, but often it can. SO reduce the opportunity for confrontation and and you may well find yourself thinking differently about your child. Which in turn may well influence their behaviour in a positive way.

I would never be proud to smack. I think it is inneffective and that the UK should make it illegal as in Sweden and many other European countries. But first the whole concept of how the UK sees parenting would need to change; it should be the case that government takes more of a role in supporting families, not just sending social services to pick up the pieces when it all goes badly wrong.

Parenting is a very difficult job and a work in progress for most of us. Parents need support regardless of class, age or ethnicity. And it needs to be universal (also as in Sweden) so that there is no longer a stigma attached to using the support available. Then maybe less of us would resort to even a small smack, even occasionally.

I think sometimes parents who smack feel as though they are being condemned for getting angry, or resporting to an unplanned method in a crisis, or "losing control", with the assumption being that those of us who don't smack are always the kind of exasperatingly calm, serene, unflappable mothers we all hate . I am not one of those mothers. My kids have made me so angry sometimes it's scared me. BUT I do think as the adult in the situation it's our responsibility not to report to hitting. Children resport to hitting sometimes, and we teach them that it's wrong, don't we?

And when it comes to parents who smack in a calm considered way because "it works" - well, I'm afraid I can't see that as anything but chilling. The logical conclusion of that sort of thinking is just horrific. Thank heaven we don't have that kind of corporal violence ethos at the heart of our legal system any more - I personally see eradicating it from our homes and families as a social priority.

resort, fgs, why can't I type resort today?!?

I agree greensleeves I would never smack but have a real fly off the handle type of personality which rears its head but is my problem and not something I inflict on ds.I have been known to be a bit of a ranter but hitting just seems wrong to me

Well, I am a shouter too. But I'm pretty sure that is just as bad

Totally agree, Greensleeves. Imo 'planned and premeditated' smacking is much worse than that done in the spur of the moment.

I also find something chilling in people who say or imply that they are 'proud' of hitting their children.

Speccy - I don't see how non-smackers are getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop in this discussion. So the smackers are telling you to "play down our view that Smacking is wrong".

And you, and me, and many others are telling them they are not being good parents.

It doesn't seem biased towards the smackers to me.

bogwoppit, not a smacker myself, but could you expand on why worse to smack in a "pre-meditated" fashion as opposed to demonstrating loss of self control?
just interested.
thanks