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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Good old fashioned smacking

780 replies

heepie · 02/07/2007 13:20

I don't believe it did me any harm and I do wonder why the previous generation, ie mine, was so much better behavied than the current, ie my kids. I find the softly softly, ignore bad reward good behaviour does not work with a strong willed child and find myself more and more thinking what was wrong with a good old smack? Peeing on the floor right in front of you with a big smile on the face surely warrants more than the removal of a star on the reward chart? And whacking little brother over the head with a heavy object? Not eating something very nice and edible that I have slaved over in the kitchen? Why must we never tell our children to eat what is in front of them when I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I was finished? I don't have an eating disorder. I think it's time I through all the modern how to bring up children books out of the window and remember how it was done when I was a child? Anyone else feel this way?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

meandmyflyingmachine · 02/07/2007 15:11

The "not good parents" bit being not necessarily articulated but strongly implied...

Speccy · 02/07/2007 15:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

meandmyflyingmachine · 02/07/2007 15:13

Quite.

So is it surprising that you get a strong reaction?

paulaplumpbottom · 02/07/2007 15:13

I am shocked that some people still think its ok to smack their children? You are causing your child pain!!!!! How is that reasonable?

Greensleeves · 02/07/2007 15:14

I think if you were generally a non-violent parent who lost your temper and smacked once, you should apologise to the child, try and work out strategies to prevent it from happening again, then forgive yourself and move on.

That's a million miles away from being a person who actually thinks it's justifiable and a good idea to use violence against a child in a calm an deliberate way. Much, much more sinister iMO.

Original poster

heepie · 02/07/2007 15:15

Thanks Greensleeves for your long email. I actually follow methods like those 99% of the time. This is a typical scenario for the other 1%, pick up from nursery, has a bag of sweets from a party, wants them now, I say you can have them after dinner, not before. She screams and throws herself on the ground all the way home, which would take 15m but takes 30m. I tell her if she doesn't stop screaming I will take the sweets away and she will not have them at all, doesn't stop, I say I will count to 3 or 10 and if she hasn't stopped, away they go, she doesn't stop, I take them away, she screams louder and longer, then at home we have bath and dinner for her and little brother to get through, won't get into bath, won't go to table, eventually I say you stop screaming and get into the bath/go to the table, or you go to your room with a smack. And she goes to her room with a smack and she's an angel for the rest of the evening. In all of this I have asked the nursery how she was, I have asked her if she is sick/tired etc... I make allowances if she has cold, missed sleep the night before because little brother sleeping etc... What would you do differently if the screaming doesn't stop. Time out in room results in screaming until she is red and out of breath and she works herself up, doesn't calm herself down.

OP posts:

Greensleeves · 02/07/2007 15:15

I don't think the debate is biased in favour of the smackers. I think they generally get a bit of a verbal pasting on these threads. And rightly so

Greensleeves · 02/07/2007 15:19

I would have taken the sweets away, explained to her calmly but firmly why they had gone and that she would not be getting them back. If the screaming etc had persisted I would have put her somewhere safe (stairs/other room/hall away from the rest of the family (but not shut out!) and allowed her to calm down in her own time, however long it took. If she was still behaving like this at bedtime, I would have changed her in to her pyjamas and put her to bed. I probably would have gone up for a little chat later, when she was calm.

I'm sure there are a million holes that can be picked in that, but I don't see that introducing physical violence into the situation is worthwhile at all. IMO it was the ten minutes in her room that calmed her, not the smack.

Greensleeves · 02/07/2007 15:20

Being red and out of breath isn't a medical emergency, is it? She would calm down eventually. Smacking in this situation seems a bit like bailing out because YOU don't like having to listen to the screaming.

mytwopenceworth · 02/07/2007 15:22

Not smacking children has led to a breakdown in society. Weeelllllll....

Personally, I don't smack. I don't want to hit my kids. End of. It instills fear. Which is a way of getting them to behave.

While you are around.

If they think they'll get caught.

However, what is punishment? It is a consequence for unacceptable or dangerous behaviour.

If you do X, Y will happen.

And THAT is what is missing these days. It isn't smacking, (although since it has gone alongside the change in attitude towards smacking as an acceptable punishment, it is easy to see how people could think that) it is consequence.

Years ago, the 'rules' were instilled in you. If you broke them, not only would you probably get a smack, but you would also get widespread disapproval, if it's a crime, you might get jail time - actual jail not the Holloway Hilton. Consequences.

Nowadays, everyone has rights and nobody has responsibilities, nobody cares what the neighbours are doing and if they are respectable, the man down the road won't yell at you and tell your mum if you give him some lip - and if he does, your mum won't punish you, she'll mouth off at him.....

If you get no messages that anything is wrong - at home, at school, at work... everything is about what you can get, not what you should do....it's a free for all. Lack of consideration. Lack of.....Consequences.

bogwobbit · 02/07/2007 15:24

micromummy, I just feel that actually planning to use physical punishment and cause your child pain and humiliation (because ultmately that's what smacking is about) is worse than being driven to the end of your tether and hitting out of sheer exasperation. Not that that's right either. Hope that explains what I mean.

Greensleeves · 02/07/2007 15:24

snowleopard · 02/07/2007 15:24

Heepie from your description it sounds almost as if your DD has got used to, expects and almost demands the smack as the only thing that will calm her down - perhaps as the final message from you that she has pushed you past every other option. It's like an exercise in pushing you to the limit. It's about her power over you. And as it's happened more than once, I don't think it's working as a punishment. She gets a warning and it doesn't work.

If you really want other suggestions, i think it would help to think of her more as a human being who can take responsibility for her actions and what happens in her life. As Greensleeves says, if you can link the consequence to the behaviour (I don't think either crime or punishment are relevant here) then it helps to make the world make sense to the child. So a child who is screaming and being difficult has to be removed from the situation because it is not nice for people to be around. A child who pees on the floor on purpose must be shown, gently and persistently, that it doesn't infuriate you (that would show the child they have the power) but that it makes a mess and is a hassle, and they can help clean it up. These lessons help you work towards an adult understanding of the world - that if you screw up, you have to deal with the results. Instead of an infantile outlook - that if you are "naugty" you are "punished".

meandmyflyingmachine · 02/07/2007 15:24

We heard you!

witchandchips · 02/07/2007 15:25

God yes i know those horrible 1% of the time situations. Think you just need to try and avoid them or compromise. On the sweets nursery issue, i can really understand why a child would get so angry as they are being given something and then it is being taken away. What about just giving one sweet and then making a deal of keeping them somewhere safe for after supper. After supper make a big deal about bringing them out. "you were so good about giving them to mummy to look after...".

woopsadaisy · 02/07/2007 15:28

to disapline my dd i use the naughter corner and i count to five (never actually got to five though)
i have smacked my dd on a few occasions

(once was when she looked at me when i told her to stay where she was and promptly tried to thrw herself in front of a car)

i felt in that situation trying to convey what happened/could of happened verbally wouldnt have had such gravitas as a smack

i must have been smacked about 3 times in my childhood, all of which i remember.
i dont ever remember being scared, just knew that what i had done was incredibly bad and i never did it again

Greensleeves · 02/07/2007 15:28

oops, double-posted

micromummy · 02/07/2007 15:29

thanks
i've definitely shouted with the intent to upset - and felt bad afterwards.
it's hardly greensleeves admired "calmly and firmly"
need greater inner peace to deal with toddler (esp with hungry 8 week old about)...

Speccy · 02/07/2007 15:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowleopard · 02/07/2007 15:30

And with the sweets - well I hate it when nursery does this, it is a pain to deal with, but i let DS have 1 sweet or 1 bite of cake etc then take the rest away until after tea. Yes he screams his head off, but so what? He's telling me he's pissed off about it, and I say OK I know you want them, but it's tough. Then I treat him normally, distract him, let him burn it out. I do actually think it's perfectly reasonable for him to object if i take away something that's his. It's my job to listen. Neither of us wants him to be in that state, so it's then my job to help him calm down.

I think if we see our children as human, as having motives like our own, as much as possible then maybe it's easier not to get so riled by things like tantrums.

(Though I don't mean to sound supercalm either. i have lost it and shouted - though not hit.)

teafortwoandtwofortea · 02/07/2007 15:31

oooh M2PW - you sound just like my mum! (whom I love dearly) - she used to say "you have a choice, you can choose to do as your told or not but if you choose not THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES!!!!"

FWIW, I think we'd all like to think we have the answer to the best way to discipline children - personally if we're going to arue for laws then I'd want to see one to prevent parents from allowing their 12 yr olds to spend their evenings drinking cheap beer on the allotments at the back of my house. But honestly - I don't think it's the way to go - for those of you in the 'smacking should be illegal' please think about where that kind of legislating takes us and how much effect it would really have (none IMO). You don't know the best way to parent my child, I don't know the best way to parent yours so lets all stop pretending like we do and start supporting each other, whatever our choices may be.

bogwobbit · 02/07/2007 15:35

I personally don't think that smacking per se should be made illegal because

if would potentially criminalise many loving (if, imo, misguided) parents who for whatever reason use physical punishment.
It would take resources away from the more serious cases of 'real' child abuse where they should be directed.

bogwobbit · 02/07/2007 15:36

I also agree that parents should support each other more. Definitely

snowleopard · 02/07/2007 15:38

Don't agree with you teafor2. Just because someone has a child, it doesn't mean that whatever they do is appropriate and OK. We all know that there are parents who abuse their children and should be stopped. Well, some of us see physical punishment as harmful. We see that the law prevents adults from hitting other adults. Why? Because it's violence, it's wrong, it can be dangerous, it's disrespectful, etc. So we would like the law to also say that adults shouldn't be allowed to hit children either - little children, who are smaller, weaker, and have less comeback. To me, it's wrong, and the fact that their your kids doesn't mean you know best. Any more than if your husband hit you and gave you a black eye and then said "well she's my wife, so it's my business and you should support me in how I choose to conduct my relationship." Well no, I'd still think it was wrong.

UnquietDad · 02/07/2007 15:39

If there is good old-fashioned smacking, is there also, by extension, bad new-fangled smacking? And is that worse?

Just asking.

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