Good old fashioned smacking

[heepie]

I don't believe it did me any harm and I do wonder why the previous generation, ie mine, was so much better behavied than the current, ie my kids. I find the softly softly, ignore bad reward good behaviour does not work with a strong willed child and find myself more and more thinking what was wrong with a good old smack? Peeing on the floor right in front of you with a big smile on the face surely warrants more than the removal of a star on the reward chart? And whacking little brother over the head with a heavy object? Not eating something very nice and edible that I have slaved over in the kitchen? Why must we never tell our children to eat what is in front of them when I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I was finished? I don't have an eating disorder. I think it's time I through all the modern how to bring up children books out of the window and remember how it was done when I was a child? Anyone else feel this way?

i think that for some parents its a useful tool. - obviously not for all. obvioulyit can be used too much, obviously it can very much depend on he severity or the smack.

to akin it to beating it in itself childish.

and your points were.........

Who, me?!?

Read it, UCM, or don't - I'm not converting it into "Janet and John find a faux-leather bull-whip in the potting shed" language for you

pmsl

Sorry, I was trying to decipher the last two long posts.

Godzilla...spounds like a similar situation as me...also..I mentioned earlier my mum did use Kitchen utensils...she has apologised sinc, and also has said that many things she found o.k. at the time...having time to think of them, she would find unacceptable and wopuld pull us up if we did...this did include hitting hard...not smacking, btw...and using utensils to smack and leave Kids alone in flat or house, dispite some sort of outside Babysitting service, with her, next door neighbour would be available if we needed help..if she would have heard uis if we needed her..whole other story....

Anyway, I am going to bed now, but I will continue to argue in the morning. Nite all.xxxxxx

mine UCM???

if it was to me...my pint was that the same parent will react differntly to each child....not sure if ther behaviour is always a mirror image of their teachings at home or else, cos my Kids would always be the smae....but different Kids different measure differentl coping mechanisms....etc....not sure that makes any more sense, tbh...but anyway, I have got 3 Kids and am myself....so, why don't they all behave the same, why can't I do just xyz with them and all is sorted...oh...yes...each Kid does have their own personality...not always just down to the parenitng itself , but of course the genes are down to the parent...

I would like to acknowledge and respond to GodzillasBumcheek's post though, because it is very considered and heartfelt and shouldn't be ignored.

I'm aware I am coming across as a holier-than-thou smug cow here, it's a price I've decided to pay to argue for something I believe in . As you've noticed my thinking on this issue is quite black and white - that's not because I'm a simpleton who can't appreciate subtleties, it's because after a HUGE amount of personal examination and soul-searching this issue is very clear-cut to me, and it's worth battling it out on these threads because people in vulnerable situations read them for advice.

However FWIW Godzilla (and I hope and assume you don't much give a fuck what I think of you anyway) OF COURSE I don't think you love your children any less than I love mine, or that you are generally a lousy parent. In various ways I am a lousy parent. I lost my temper and got cross and nasty with my 4yo the other day, because he had spread poo all over the bathroom. Actually he had had an accident and was trying to clear it up himself, because he didn't want me to be bothered by it while I was looking after ds2 who has chicken pox . Boy, did I feel like a mean, cruel, worthless murderess when I calmed down and realised how much I had upset him. I'm not sure that was any better than smacking. I have lots of difficulties with my kids, and I openly post about them on MN, I need help and advice as much as anyone else, and I don't hide from the fact that I am a decidedly less-than-perfect mother.

BUT - IMO I don't need to be perfect mother - or even have delusions of adequacy - to have a strong and forceful opinion on something as concrete as smacking. I argue against it every time, because I truly believe that it is the last vestige of legalised violence in our society, that it is indefensible and cruel. And I would rather be the kind of mother who fucks up by shouting/crying/saying something regrettable than the sort of mother who calmly and cold-bloodedly jits a little child and then justifies it to other people. A parent who lashes out and smacks, and then regrets it and apologises, is human IMO. It is an abusive act, but the parent who slips up like this isn't "an abuser", because this term implies regularity and intent. Shouting/frightening a child is also abusive IMO, and I've done that and don't know anyone who hasn't. The parent who decides to smack as a matter of policy, and can't see why it's wrong, is an abuser, pure and simple.

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I think I andm any others ahve given many reasoned arugeuments against smacking and in favour of a more humane approach bloss - you might like to sit yourself down and actually read all of the posts without your blinkers on

...and I don't think I shouted "cowardly inadequate bullies" over my shoulder...that imples motion. I'm still here

Do you have any reasoned arguments you'd like to contribute? Or is it just more of the very "assertive" bluster?

In fairness though Bloss there are 2 sides to an arguement and I would be interested to read the justification parents have when deciding that smacking their small defenceless children is a fair and just punishment.

And out of interest at what age do you stop smacking a child - would that be when they can hit you back?

'you lot'

nice - brings to mind many a bigot

LOL, bloss isn't used to being argued with

not so easy to fend off other adults is it, when you can't just use a good hard smack.

which is why she's posted a maximum of 4 times on this thread and still feels able to accuse others of failing to provide adequate justification for their views.

"...We cannot draw lines and try and define acceptable ways of hitting children. There can be no compromise, any more than we compromise in challenging all violence against women.?
Professor Paulo Pinheiro, Independent Expert leading the UN Secretary General's Study on Violence against Children, 2005"

A common thought here is that smacking a child will only teach it that violence is acceptable. But as I said earlier, I was slapped fairly frequently as a child and teen and yet I don't think violence is acceptable or go around hitting other people. Nor did I as child. I don't think that smacking as a means of discipline teaches a child that physical aggession is acceptable in all situations. Surely we are more intelligent than that and able to distinguish between different situations and uses of force. Perhaps it wasn't right to go to war in Iraq but WW2 was that justifiable? Our society is complex. All animals (homo sapiens are animals) use some force and aggression in their societies as well and negotiation and diplomacy. I'm not in favour of smacking and wish it not to be a part of my parenting because for me it is just about loss of temper and it doesn't achieve anything positive in the long run. But there should be a debate. The issue is not B&W.

009, what smacking teaches, very specifically, is that violence is acceptable and desirable in close, domestic family relationships and to settle disputes, and it is OK to use superior force to makesomeone smaller and weaker than you do what you want them to do by inflicting pain and humiliation.
which I don't think is the kind of lesson that children should learn

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I'm a non-smacker, so this is me being devil's advocate a bit, but:

As loving, caring parents we are doing things to our children every day which, if we did them to adults would constitute abuse.

eg, (thinking of toddler age) we control:

• what they eat
• what they wear
• what time they go to sleep
• access to books/TV/games
• all social contact

We reprimand them in public, we take interesting objects away from them, we put them in time out, we pick them up and physically remove them from situations - things which would be totally humiliating and unacceptable to an adult.

And we don't worry that by parenting in this way we're teaching them that it's OK to have total control over another adult, because we assume (rightly) that children can tell the difference.

So, IMO, you can't use the "adults don't smack each other" argument to prove that smacking children is a bad thing. (You can't use it to argue that smacking is a good thing either, obviously).

So, I don't smack, but not convinced that all smackers are teaching their children to be violent. Life is never that simple.

Bloss, imo you are defending the indefensible.