Good old fashioned smacking

[heepie]

I don't believe it did me any harm and I do wonder why the previous generation, ie mine, was so much better behavied than the current, ie my kids. I find the softly softly, ignore bad reward good behaviour does not work with a strong willed child and find myself more and more thinking what was wrong with a good old smack? Peeing on the floor right in front of you with a big smile on the face surely warrants more than the removal of a star on the reward chart? And whacking little brother over the head with a heavy object? Not eating something very nice and edible that I have slaved over in the kitchen? Why must we never tell our children to eat what is in front of them when I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I was finished? I don't have an eating disorder. I think it's time I through all the modern how to bring up children books out of the window and remember how it was done when I was a child? Anyone else feel this way?

And I've read your numerous arguments on the subject over the years and I still disagree with you.

bloss, I am sure you do dispute my points but that doesn't make them wrong.
in some ways it really is a non argument. I think raising your hand to a child to hurt them is wrong (akthough it happens and it isn't always a disaster). you think it is a matter of context. In that respect I view all of your arguments as a bit squirmy and mealy mouthed, and frankly a bit nauseating. the semantic arguments I find particularly queasy inducing.
I think it is potentially very harmful. you don't (or at least I hope you don't. I hope you don't think it is ptotentially harmful but don't care). well as far as that goes I think the weight of the argument is with those on this thread and elsewhere who were smacked and were damaged by it. their experiences hold a great deal of power.

Ok, I went and scanned through one of the old threads for bloss' incredible logical arguments, and found instead a lot of talk about hitting calmly and, being sure of how she does things. You know, bloss, waving about a philosophy degree and saying 'I've had this argument before, and I was right then, too' isn't actually the same thing as making an argument?

One of my favourite questions to ask on this subject, which hasn't come up (I don't think?) is: from what age is hitting ok? Would you hit a two year old? A one year old? When is it ok to start?

actually someone on this thread said that it was only useful to smakc the under twos
will find it

By localgirl on Tue 03-Jul-07 17:22:07
I saw this thread and have to say that smacking does work but only with under 2's
yuk

I'm afraid Bloss, I just can't see the justification in inflicting physical pain on a child as a reasonable and effective form of punishment.

I'm not sure I agree with "punishment" at all really but then my children are only 4 and 2 and haven't done anything "really bad".

And when do you stop smacking? - when they wallop you back?

oh and to those who say - well smacking doesn't matter you should concentrate on the real abuse.
I worked with the NSPCC for a while and used to be involved on the legal side with child abuse cases. yes, I have seen and read some horrendous things.
I don't see why that should make me think hitting chuldren is OK. complete nonsequitur imo

As for smacking under-2s - why would you do it?

I've read that outlawing smacking vastly reduces the number of child deaths. Certainly the more serious sorts of child abuse generally start out as smacking. (Most people who hit their kids, just hit their kids, they don't do worse and worse things.)

You'll never resolve the arguments between people on this but the Government has. Many of the smackers on here will be breaking the law. I would like to see them tracked down and punished for that. If we can also remove the right to hit without a mark in the new legislation so much the better. Then we will issue their children at school with childline phone number and email details and get them to record their parents on camera phones etc and post it on youtube and to the authorities if it's bad and in that way we will route and stop the smackers. They are a dying breed anyway and should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Bloss - I didn't call you a bigot. I said the phrase 'you lot' brings bigotry to mind, for me, it does.

There would be little point in me listing out my reasons for being against smacking. This thread is full of posts far more articulate than mine would be. I can only put it simply - I find it abhorrent.

I was told on Monday (child protection course) that the numbers of children physically abused in Scotland has not changed since the new anti smacking law came in (applies to children under3) but in Seden where they have a blanket no smacking law the figures have fallen significantly.

Sweden!!!

I too have had this argument many times over on MN, and many times before with Bloss.

I disagree with smacking or any other form of violence actioned by an adult on a child. I don't think it is right, morally to do so. Those of you who say that being hit as a child has not made you violent towards others are conveniently ignoring the violence that you choose to action against your own child/children.

I think many parents who choose to hit their children are perhaps doing it because they are too unimaginative or repressed to challenge the way that they themselves were parented, so they follow blindly what others have done to them on the basis that 'it didn;t do me any hard' - well I would beg to differ

And Bloss never wins the debate over smacking, never, never, never. I can politely agree to disagree with her - as I have done on occasions before - but Bloss will never win this argument because the basic premise that it is okay for an adult to hit a child is flawed.

It didn't do me any harm.

How do you know it didnt do them any harm, soapy?

Many people here obviously find the idea of smacking children totally abhorrant. Surely that doesn't mean that others aren't entitled to their opinion. Harpsichordcuddler, I have already argued that smacking does not teach children that violence is acceptable. I pointed out I was smacked yet don't think it acceptable. Soooo..... that arguement just doesn't stand up. My parents smoked I'm an anti smoker.
As far as smacking being a violation of a child's rights.... what about a parent's rights? My child violates me on a a daily basis. As far as all this 'pop psychology' goes it stinks. You can't apply text books to family life.

VVVQV - I wasn't saying that about myself - I was correcting my typo in the previous post

LOL I know, but i meant your comment about folk who say "it never did me any harm - i beg to differ" why do you beg to differ?

"what about a parent's rights? My child violates me on a a daily basis" ROFL Welcome to being a parent. I beleive you are meant to develop a relationship with your offspring not enter into a legal arrangement. Isn't it about the parent being the more experienced and guiding and helping the inexperienced child to understand the world?

It harmed them, imo, because it made them into big horrible bullies who hit their small defenceless children. Furthermore it has damaged their logical thought processes to the point where they cannot see that that is an extreme abuse of power!

I fear also that their bullying by their parents stops them from questioning and challenging the things that their parents did to them. Rather than open pandora's box and have to deal with the facts that their parents weren't always the nice people they believe themselves to be, they choose to defend these practices and carry them on to a new generation!

Is that clear enough?

I think that smacking is just part of the abuse, control, discipline, violation, negotiation and general politics that go on in families. All sorts of punishment are weird if you sit and think about it. Hell why don't we just let our children do exactly what they want in order to avoid damaging them in any way? I remember my mum giving me the 'silent treatment' or the opposite 'shouting at me'. It was all unbearable for me and caused much discomfort. On the occasions when she gave me a slap at least it was over with quickly and it never actually hurt me. She didn't use smacking to control or punish me she did it because she lost her temper. Poor cow! Anyway I heard that Hitler was raised without ever being smacked by his parents!!! Did nothing to curb his passion for violence.

Juuule I was trying to inject some humour into the arguement.

Well, I think there are many parents who were smacked as children that dont progress to smacking their children.

There are parents who were not smacked as children who think smacking is an appropriate form of discipline.

I think, without a sound background in psychology, child development or a keen interest in studies conducted on such matter, your viewpoint is a little narrow.

That's not to say I advocate smacking at all. (Although I have smacked my two on occasion as a last resort through pure frustration at repeated finger in socket/run into road incidents).

But I think the whole matter is far more complex than parents who were smacked are too emotionally damaged to see further than their own upbringing. I dont think you will swing the balance in your favour by deriding folk who have been smacked as children and/or smack their own children.