Good old fashioned smacking

[heepie]

I don't believe it did me any harm and I do wonder why the previous generation, ie mine, was so much better behavied than the current, ie my kids. I find the softly softly, ignore bad reward good behaviour does not work with a strong willed child and find myself more and more thinking what was wrong with a good old smack? Peeing on the floor right in front of you with a big smile on the face surely warrants more than the removal of a star on the reward chart? And whacking little brother over the head with a heavy object? Not eating something very nice and edible that I have slaved over in the kitchen? Why must we never tell our children to eat what is in front of them when I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I was finished? I don't have an eating disorder. I think it's time I through all the modern how to bring up children books out of the window and remember how it was done when I was a child? Anyone else feel this way?

I think one of the problems is that if you want to change your child's behaviour, you need to plan and you need to be calm - once you have lost it, any method tends to just go down hill. I suspect that is why people say they have tried other methods but they don't work.

Methods such as proper time out (i.e. giving each party some breathing space) and counting to 10 slowly work because they give everybody time to get a grip and put things in perspective.

Can't think of any parents that ignore bad behaviour in thinking that it will discipline the child

As parents we have to learn how to deal with each of our children. I only have to slightly raise my voice to DS2 and he behaves. DS1 is more difficult but clever enough to underatand when he has pushed me too far. I can't think of any reason or sense in thinking that a smack will teach a child anything, sorry. It's just lazy. And shows how undisciplined the parent is.

Parents who say it did them no harm are kidding themselves because it taught them violence is OK and they will often hit and harm their own children.

That's not to say parenting isn't tough. Strategies I use include 'the look' and best of all I teach my kids the nature of me being disappointed in them.

Igglepiggle - I use "the look" too ! V. effective on dd1 - sadly not so much on dd2 who just grins at me cheekily most of the time...

Oh i must be such a heinous villainous parent. Hitting my dd sometimes has turned her into a 9 year old that is kind and caring towards others (has been commented by teachers, not just my own observances), and will look after other kids in the playground when they need a friend, whether they be smaller, larger or same size as herself. And point noted - you are a child abuser if you hit your child even if you cannot see another alternative, there couldn't possibly be any middle grounds which do not involve aggressive and nasty parents who slap/ smack their child at every opportunity.
What a waste of time it is to talk to you. You obviously can't see past your own noses.

And yes, my parents did hit me as a child, but i use a helluva lot more restraint than they did.

what happens when the smacks don't work any more? just curious.

In my opinion, all the positive outcome scenarios happened in spite of the smacking, not because of it. It just seems such a no-brainer to me. You're big, they're little, so you don't hit them.

And isn't it funny that it'a ALWAYS an electric socket they've been going for that means they've got to be smacked! Or running out into the road.

Buy a plug cover and hold their hand while you're going to the shops to buy it. Problem solved.

It would depend how often you use smacking! I imagine if you used no other form of discipline it would stop working...but i wouldn't know. Can't remember last time i had to! Last time dd did something which caused argument with her sister, i told her she'd be going to bed half an hour earlier if she didn't stop it now - so she stopped

This thread title becomes more odious every time I see it.

Good post katelyle, I always feel somewhat about all these children who seem hellbent on running out into oncoming traffic.

And agree that the nicer aspects of a child's development probably aren't actually due to the smacking (particularly since Godzilla in particular is at such pains to emphasize how seldom an occurrence it is). Innate nature, other relationships, the indomitable nature of the human spirit - there are many factors which could of course alleviate the harm done by being physically hurt by a parent. Indeed, many of the victims of really serious abuse and bullying turn out to be wonderful strong caring capable people. Are we then to assume that the abuse was a good thing for them? No?

Some holes in your argument, I think, Bumcheek.

Am not arguing, but pointing out that you seem to think all parents who smack are child abusers. And i do agree with hitting someone smaller than yourself if a) you are preventing harm coming to them (i agree, people should hold hands/ use reins - i did, so please stop using the sad old cliche) or b) you are preventing harm happening to someone else.

I also don't think that it's a good way to discipline your child by grounding (prevents letting off steam by playing outside), or sending to bed with no tea (isn't that neglect?)

I disagree with smacking.

But sometimes I get SO angry with my DS that I want to smack him so much, I feel so angry I actually want to hurt him.

I feel terrible even writing this, I'm going to cry, I love him so much, how could I feel like this ever? But I have done.

I have smacked him twice ever, in anger, but the minute I did it the anger was gone and there was only remorse and sadness.

I hope I never ever do it again.

I do think hitting a child is abusive, Bumcheek. I'm not implying it at all, I'm saying it. It's not (usually) the strongest or the most damaging form of abuse, or even necessarily the most traumatic punishment - I've heard worse - but yes, IMO smacking (which is a stylised and euphemistic word which means hitting) a child is abusive.

Too many kids think that the world revolves round them because their parents have not shown them what the real world is like.
We all want to protect our kids but some people are to scared to say boo to a child.
I have 4 kids and do not need tyo smack them.

"say boo"? Is that some sort of dialect for "hit with flat of hand"?

It's a myth that parents who smack have no standards for behaviour. IME the most ill-behaved children are the ones whose parents model violence, bullying and threatening behaviour to them from an early age by hitting them when they fail to please.

aarrgh, parents who don't smack. Been on this daft thread too long.

You must be happy being so perfect. Us real people live in a world where we have to make hard choices, often on the spot, often under pressure. Making low comments about people being child abusers when you can clearly see they are trying to be a good parent the best way they can, is surely as derogatory to you as it isto me, Sleeves. Certainly patronising holier-than-thou attitudes don't help us be better parents, do they?

well said

Well, I think personally that defining terms like "abuse" even if it upsets people who think what they are doing is OK, qualifies as a hard choice. I think it's important - I think children (including yours!) have a basic right not to be hit, just as the rest of us do.

I don't think I'm perfect though, far from it. I think I talked quite a lot about that earlier in the thread. Not being perfect doesn't invalidate my opinions though, I'm afraid. If you wish to be insulated from the disapproval of others, stay away from public forums - stay at home and hit your child, where no-one will tell you it's disgraceful.

define child abuse please

Yes i do find it insulting to be called a child abuser. I also find that you have not once responded with any other alternatives. Bear in mind that young children should not be punished after the fact, as they will not know why you are doing it.

I think I did!

I did write quite a long post earlier detailing some of the alternatives I use, for what it's worth. If asked I aways do, despite being very far from a perfect parent.

I'm not going to be bullied or jeered into retracting what I think is an absolute truth though (there are still a few of those left IMO). Hitting someone smaller than you in order to modify their behaviour is cowardly and despicable.

They aren't low comments. I am telling peopleon this thread that a good few will be breaking English law so this is not just something some of us have made up. If you think people should hit others then I suggest you ask your husband to thump you next time you misbehave and see how you feel about that.

if you smack but it doesn't hurt then it can hardly work so those saying it's a tap are presumably lying. If it hurts and marks then there's a good chance it's already illegal.

Also notice it's usually the least educated parents who do it and often the least psychologically astute. It has ever been thus.

So, GodzillasBumcheek, you think that sending a child to bed with no dinner is not acceptable. In fact you term it neglect.

But you think that hitting a child is acceptable.

I'm so pleased that I have a different perspective on right and wrong to you.

Oh, and I think that your argument that hitting is ok as you don't do it often is total bollocks.

actual or attempted physical abuse ie. bruising, fractures, scratches, burns, poisoning, attempted drowning or smothering,
this is what we call abuse.

hitting a child is on the same continuum as burning/cutting/punching. It's a milder form of abuse.