Just come back from pre-school and I'm very upset

[frazzledazzle]

I've just spoke to the nursery nurse who has suggested that we refer DS1 to the childrens centre because the nursery has 2 areas of concern regarding him.

1: He toe walks.

2: He has obssessional behaviour regarding animals particularly zebras and when he gets to nursery the first thing he does is go to look for some.

She also mentioned he got hurt yesterday and so started running round hysterical and wouldn't be consoled.

I've noticed the toe walking myself and was planning to get him refered when DC3 is born I'm 36+3.
But it concerned me what she was getting at regarding the behaviour,couldn't that just be normal 3 year old behaviour?

I came away quite upset and DH is fuming that they could just drop that into conversation without proper explanation.

I think my son is fine and just feel a bit scare mongered and hormonal.

What would you think if it was said to you?

If you're getting him referred anyway, then I wouldn't worry about her commenting on the same thing. I suspect that quite a lot of young children get obsessed with different things at different times. Ds (15 months) is obsesssed with balls at the moment. One of my friend's ds has a fixation on a toy aeroplane. Doesn't sound that odd to me! I do think there's a tendency to want to "normalise" behaviour in today's society and label anything which doesn't conform. I don't know what happened to the concept of individuality...

try not to be upset, it's better to get a referral earlier rather than later.

dd was referred for SALT and I felt a bit like you at first, but then realised I was glad it had been noticed and she could be helped early on.

it'll probably take ages to get an appointment anyway - ime nursery teachers usually have a pretty darn good idea of what is cause for concern and what's not.

No2 doesn't sound hugely odd to me, particularly when you mention that he is about to get a new sibling. Of course it's alarming to have this sort of thing dropped on you, but personally I'd rather a nursery be over-cautious than miss something truly problematic.

1. doesn't sound odd to me. It's probably a comfort thing. Loads of children do this.

Surely there has to be a longer list of concerns before referring to a childrens' centre? I don't know about toe-walking but if you are getting him referred anyway you can ask about it then.

She isn't a doctor and cannot diagnose anything.

If you get him refered it may well put your mind at rest. Toe walking can indicate problems but is can also be nothing. Dh (still) toe walks and he is an RAF pilot!

what IS toe walking? Walking on teh balls ofyour feet?

(ds aged 3 is obsessed with "Mr Chimpy" a small knitted chimp. If he can't find it he goes mad. Perfectly normal IMO)

If you are getting him referred anyway... it will help to have them in your corner Frazzle
Do you think it was just the fact that someone confirmed back what you had already thought/decided to do?...sometimes that sort of knocks you sideways doesn't it.It's one thing to worry about things ourselves ...but when others start raising concerns it's a whole new ball game isn't it

So her likes animals? so what I think the nursery have a list of things they watch out for and "obssesive" behaviour is one of them. So it is probably nothing, he probably just likes animals, in fact dd is obsessed with cats just now and also loves her play group and points and shouts whenever we pass, obessional? nah. But dont be cross with the nurse she is totally correct to raise her concerns and you should maybe talk to your HV to set up a referral. Its worrying i know as i had to refer dd to the peadiatrician over dev problems and they dont seem to be ironing themselves out as she suggested they might. Its probably that is taking her time with certain things but its reassuring to know that help is htere if needed before it becomes a problem. Try not to worry, im sure he is absolutely fine. Saying all that, i would have felt exactly the same as you do.

dd 3 is obsessed with scaffolding at the moment
She nearly wets her pants with excitement when we pass a building site, and has to look for it when we are out. Before that it was double decker buses, both toy and real....I hope it's normal, cos otherwiaw i have a very strange daughter!

I wouldn't be worried about those things by themselves. Are there any other areas of his development that concern you?

I'm not worried about my sons development.
I just was upset by the obssessive comment because she made it sound like he might have behavioural problems.

DS1 is very sociable and loves nursey and has made friends.

The toe walking comment didn't bother me as I used to do this as a child and it was sorted with physio and surgery.But my son has problems with his bladder and genatalia and will require surgery when he's older and other interventions and I just thought not more procedures and appointments.
I've just felt overwhlelmed today I think

A friend's ds toe-walked and, without any intervention, now walks normally.
He does kind of bounce off his feet, hardly putting his heels down, but so does his dad, so it must just be a family thing.

It doesn't look odd, btw. Have a look at how other people walk - many different, normal variations.

In the same family, the teachers thought the dd was obsessed by hamsters when she was in infant school.
I think this is pretty normal when they're little. My own dd likes horses a lot.

I'm sorry. I don;t have anoything to say about the toe walking as I have no experience - but a 3 year old being obssessed with animals????? For God's sake - what is the world coming too. Surely they would rather than that than sticking his head down the loo every 5 minutes!

How CAN a 3 year old be obssessed - surely at that age life is about playing with what you most enjoy. DS2 is 3 adn he is absolutely bonkers about animals - much rather watch Animal Planet than cartoons, much rather play 'vets' than soldiers.

I hope you manage to sort things out.

Ds is 4 and got "obsessed" and "fixated" about a giant foam number four which he kept waving around in a super hero stylee - someone forgot to tell his keyworker about Numberjacks

Now my ds does have a few issues which we've been referred about but most of the time his behaviour is completely normal.

I think when staff see one "unusual" thing in a child they suddenly produce a tick list of other "symptoms' to look out for. Maybe they're just covering their backs?

My son still walks on his toes at five years old. He used to be a really extreme toe walker and had 18 months of physio. He now only toe walks when not wearing shoes.

Toewalking is extremely common and most children outgrow it without any help.

I can understand how you feel. We had a stupid pre school leader telling me that my son was autisic because toewalked and had delayed speech. Our paediatrian agreed with us that he wasn't autisic. He was offering pretend cups of tea to the paediatian. In the next door room there was a baby crying while it was having physio. My three year old son wanted to go and rescue the baby from the "nasty" physio. (So had plenty of empathy)

The child development centre found out that my son had glue ear.

Some pre school leaders/ teachers have their heads stuck up their own ar$es. They think that just because they have an nvq or a teaching qualification they are medically qualified to diagnose autism.

I think that children get labelled as autisic too easily by unqualified people. Your child sound perfectly normal to me. What wrong with liking plastic animals?

frances5 totally agree.some people in child care seem to be really obsessed about children showing autistic tendancies.my son had obsessional behaviours we went to see a fantastic ed psychologist when he was 5 who said that he thought some 'obsessional' behavours in children that young were normal they are so fascinated by the world they gets obsorbed by a certain idea or object but they naturally move on. its called growing up

Frazzledazzle, I think your nursery may be being a bit over cautious in their concerns for your ds. It may be that they have not had much experience of this processs before as I don't think they have handled it as well as they could.

Obsessive behaviour in a young child is certainly not unusual on it's own, how many children fixate on watching the same dvd over and over again if given the chance? If, as a NN I felt the behaviour of a child was on the extreme side I would automatically be looking at how they react in social situations, on a one to one basis, how they follow instructions, etc.. etc... to get a complete picture of the child.

You describe your son as being very sociable and having lots of friends. His obsessional behaviour in this context would not worry me unless it was so extreme it was affecting his and the other children's opportunity to learn.

I do think the timing of this is a bit rotten, you are bound to be more sensitive to everything at the moment, especially anything to do with your ds. I would go in and have a chat with the nursery manager and his key worker about how you feel, you will probably feel much better if you do. It sounds as if they really care about the children they look after, they just need to develop a better procedure to deal with potential 'problems'

My 5yr old toewalks but mostly when she feels anxoius she has done this from when she first walked. she is also very shy hence she now has the label of being autistic after school got the educational physcologist in.

I think if you were already planning to get a referral for toe-walking then just go along with that.

It's good that the staff are on the look-out for problems but in this particular case it sounds as though they're being a little over-cautious. The obsession with animals and being inconsolable after being hurt sound pretty normal to me, especially if you have no concerns yourself. (My 2 boys are autistic)

My younger sister was obsessed with Mighty Mouse when she was three. She had a pair of yellow pyjamas which were her Mighty Mouse costume. She refused to wear anything else and spent most of her days running around shouting 'Put 'em up for Dairy Milk!' (Where this came from, none of us know).

She is now 28, runs her own highly successful business, and is completely normal.

If you have mengentitis you have a headache. However having a headache does not mean you have mengentitis.

Just because toewalking is more common in autisic children than nt children mean that a child who toe walks is automatically autisic.

There are loads of nt children like my son who are extreme toewalkers. My son was one of the most extreme toe walkers our child physio had ever met.

My son is in reception and the only problem he has is severe glue ear. Being a toe walker has never stopped him enjoying life.

Its a bad idea to put toe walking in to the internet. Its a symptom of millions of horrible conditions.

Please don't feel concerned about refered to a child development centre. Our child development centre have been fanastic.

Frazzledazzle - I think you'll find that the nursery nurse is covering herself. The same has happened to me by the way - although what the nursery nurse said was even more insulting. Out right hurtful in fact and I'm very angry she said it in front of dd. Just this morning, my dd said (upon me telling her why she didn't do something) replied, "because I'm thick." I am VERY upset and have taken dd out of this nursery. No one speaks to me or my daughter in that manner. I can sympathise with your dh - I know how he feels. Yet, 2 weeks on and I've heard nothing. Urgent they said it was. Well, I contacted the chap managing the SALT assessment etc and you know what he said? Dd daughter was too young for an assessment and in any case they carry out hearing test first. When will the hearing test take place? "In around 2 months time." If that's "urgent" I hate to know what's non-urgent....2 years? I'm still fuming 2 weeks on as you can tell from this post. Some nursery nurses have very poor communication skills, have poor diplomatic skills and yet feel they can comment and pass judgement on other people. Try to take these things in your stride which is easier said than done.

Frazzle gotta disagree with you sorry. i think you should be happy. Firstly because if she has noticed things that you have had concerns. It shows she's paying attention. 2. If she notices it and you had notice it when and if you need support for your son you get it a dam sight quicker. Anybody who knows the system knows getting help if often like getting blood out a stone. With that in mind I think she really only had your sons best interests at heart.

Thanks everyone for your comments.I've calmed down now and am not worried by what was said to me anymore.

I've asked for a referral for the toe walking and the nursery nurse apologised for upsetting me.She said she came across all wrong.
I suppose I should be grateful that they are taking notice of my son and now I've calmed down I can see they only have his best interest at heart but a course on communication skills wouldn't go amiss!!