what do you think about smacking?

[Rkayne]

Just wondering what other people's thoughts were about smacking?

Personally, I'm really against it. DD is still quite young so I've not had much cause for it so far anyway, but the most I could ever see myself doing is a light tap on the hand (say if she was reaching for something dangerous or physically hurting another child). DH is of the generation that got rulers over the back of the hands in school and so is not quite as horrified by it as I am but would still reserve any physical punishment for truly bad behaviour.

But I recently heard that a friend of mine regularly smacks her kids for what seem to me like pretty minor offences - say not wanting to put on their shoes when they're in a hurry to get out the door. Ok, so I agree this is frustrating. It might even make you angry enough to 'feel' like giving a smack if your child is constantly testing you. But surely there are better ways to respond?

I'm really not trying to judge, just wanting to know what other people think.

Message withdrawn

What is the definition of smacking? Is a tap on the hand that only shocks but doesn't really hurt a smack? To me it IS a smack - but acceptable in certain circumstances, whereas a wallop on the back of the legs/bum is not - but I wouldn't judge someone who might do that on occasion.

Living in Scotland, I'm actually opposed to the current proposed legislation as I think it is the wrong way around. The proposal is to ban ALL smacking for children under 3, when in my opinion, it is precisely the children under 3, ie the ones who you can't neccesarily communicate with language, that there might be occasions for a smack (such as a tap on the hand) - for example to ensure that the child undertands that doing something dangerous is an absolute no-no. Older than 3, and other strategies are likely to be more effective.

Dh and I were watching the progamme on smacking earlier this week and dh made an interesting point about the 2 families where smacking was being used excessively: there seemed to be a lack of "good" physical contact and, even more importantly, positive reinforcement of GOOD behaviour. The anti-smacking strategies that they were then taught made a big difference, because they were then encouraging positive behaviours instead of always telling them what NOT to do.

I have seen a friend smack her child twice when she was really was at her wits end actually beyond. It made me and my child flinch and when I myself almost smacked I grabbed my child and hugged hard instead and it took away the frustration of not getting the result and made us both feel better and me able to understand what was happening. As a child I was smacked rarely but remember it well and still feel that it was unjust and have said so.

Sorry previous message not written very well too many distractions but hope it makes sense.

I liked what you have to say about a big strong hug, Hi. I've only smacked dd twice (she's nearly 4) and that was a reflex action caused by my own anger. In the end she remembered the smack but not why she had been smacked (and I felt awful). So when she drives me to breaking point (usually when she just laughs when I tell her off) I'm going to try a big, hard hug.

At the moment we're doing happy faces and sad faces with a reward at the end of the week if she has earned more happy ones. This is working well.

I like what you said about hugging as well. Becaues there are times where you feel frustrated or angry enough to want to do something physical. Occassionally I've resorted to putting dd down, going into another room and throwing a book at the wall - doesn't hurt her but didn't actually make me feel any better either. I bet the hug would feel good though!

Did you see that programme about smacking on BBC1 the other night? Very interesting.

There were 3 families who smacked their children, but it was obvious that it was not doing any good, and the children continued to be pretty naughty.

A child psychologist (who just did not agree that smacking worked at all) went into the families and recommended alternative actions - star chart and reward for good behaviour - e.g 5 good deeds/actions/behaviour and the child got a sweet or something (trip to the park, swimming, etc...)

The 2 families who tried this approach (the third said that they would still continue smacking, but they did have rather strange ideas I felt) were amazed by the change in behaviour of their children. In fact, the Scottish family who had 6 children could not believe the positive change in some of their children.

Hope this helps.

I have smacked my dd on a couple of occasions and usually when she has wound me up to a point of total frustration. I now avoid smacking at all costs because it doesn't have the desired effect and in my mind just causes more tension.
I think my anti-smacking stance has been triggered by the fact that my dd now 4 has become a monster altho' it seems to be confined to home. I'm hoping starting school will be a turning point because her behaviour at present is really wearing. She has always been excessively demanding and hard to please but we now have screaming fits where she smacks me.Up to now I haven't responded other than to very firmly tell her to go to her room or put her there if necessary. This used to be the solution but I now find it brings only minutes of peace and as soon as she reappears another disaster will occur. The whole day seems to be a battle to the point where I dread her waking up in the morning.
I realise I've gone off on a tangent here but I am rather desperate at the mo.Needless to say smacking an already hysterical 4 yr.old hasn't worked for me.

I saw most of the documentary, Dumbledore, but had to turn in before the end. I approved utterly of the psychologist's approach but found her manner a bit patronising, to be honest. I nearly killed myself laughing when those crafty little Scots gave her the slip and headed off to the sweetie van. But as I missed the end it's very good to hear that her ideas helped all of that family and thought she was so right about them all being so cooped up. I guess the family that would not play ball was the home educators in Beckton? What a surprise.

Marina

Yes, you're right - the one's that would not join in were the home educators, but I felt that they were not playing with a full deck - why participate in the documentory when they had no intention of trying alternatives to smacking (I thought that was the whole point of it!).

Pity you missed the end, (although I agree with you about the psychologist being rather patronising), the recognition and reward did work - although the Scottish children were milking it. They were definately suffering from cabin fever though and needed to be out and about running around.

I am ashamed to admit that I have smacked my ds (3.5) on about four occasions. Worst of all usually because of my own anger and frustration. My dp is totally against smacking of any form. This meant that I felt obliged to tell him when I'd done it as I knew he would be disappointed in me. This had the effect of making me really examine why I had done it the first place. I was smacked on a regular basis by my parents with varying severity and I know that it didn't act as a deterrent for me. I am very worried that I will eventually become like my parents and start smacking on a regular basis. I really like the idea of giving a big hug instead but I am so short tempered that I'm not sure I could do it. At the moment I have to physically leave the room to prevent me from doing something I regret.

I thought it was interesting to have the different perspective of the third family. You don't know on what basis they were initially agreed to participate: if they were just told it was a programme about smacking - and the mother was quite passionate about not being apologetic for smacking in clearly defined circumstances - or whether they were told from the start that they would also be asked in to participate in an experiment about alternatives to smacking.

I found her approach interesting: unlike the other two families, smacking did not seem to occur out of frustration, but as past of a clearly defined escalation of "control". And also, unlike the other two families, their kids did seem to be well behaved and happy. ... and I am sure that the porgramme makers would have jumped on the chance to film examples of "bad" behaviour. I have to admit that I admired her for sticking to her guns.

Does anybody know if the bbc programme will be run again? I missed it the first time, but it sounds really interesting.

...or just what the name of the programme was.

thanks!

It was called "Smacking" - it was on BBC1 (I think) on Wednesday night (again I think).

Don't know if it will be run again.

I thought it was interesting to have the different perspective of the third family. You don't know on what basis they were initially agreed to participate: if they were just told it was a programme about smacking - and the mother was quite passionate about not being apologetic for smacking in clearly defined circumstances - or whether they were told from the start that they would also be asked in to participate in an experiment about alternatives to smacking.

I found her approach interesting: unlike the other two families, smacking did not seem to occur out of frustration, but as past of a clearly defined escalation of "control". And also, unlike the other two families, their kids did seem to be well behaved and happy. ... and I am sure that the porgramme makers would have jumped on the chance to film examples of "bad" behaviour. I have to admit that I admired her for sticking to her guns.

I have no idea how my 1:18 posting re-posted itself at 3:07!

... it was called "A Good Smack?". If you want to read a bit about the programme, go to The Herald web site and then look up "Feaures", "Living" and scroll down the topics to find "Giving Smacking a Red Card"

I agree with Janz views as expressed here.
In the documentary,the fact that the psychologist took the unrully kids to the park and got them to sort of cooperate proved nothing at all!They were playing in the park for goodness sake, she wasn't trying to get them all to do their homework,fed , dressed and into bed. She is not their parent who has to deal with them every day. Most of us find our kids behave better for others.
I am deeply suspicious of star charts where sweets or whatever are given for so many stars. That to me teaches kids only to behave to get rewarded.
Nothing wrong with a good smack. Never did me any harm . JOKE!!

I am a parent who beleives in what I call a paddling once in a while. I have three children 12, 9, and 20 mo. I dont paddle my 12 year old now that he is older (Id say age is really not the factor) it just seems that there are other methods of punishment that work well for him. Especially taking things away for a period of time Computer, tv etc. This is what hurts him the most. My 9 year old is a very strong willed child and I do mean strong willed child. I do have to paddle her occasionally. This works well for her. I have tried many ways of punishing and this seems to fix the problem at hand. My daughter has never resented me in anyway or showed any problems from me paddling. She actually realizes what she is doing wrong and will admitt and apologize after some cooling off time a lot faster. I do not feel parents should not paddle their children for every little thing because I have seen this too. I feel if children are always punished this way they may tend to grow up frusrtated and with anger. I know so many people who grew up being paddled when really needing it and they have turned out to be wonderful people. I had the one of the best set of parents in the world and they did paddle when I truely needed it (mostly dad) and I have never had any problems later in life. I have always been grateful how my parents raised me. In my home I usually resort to paddling when all else has failed. I beleive kids act different ways to different types of punishing it just depends on a childs personality. Like my 9 year old you can ground her till next year and she does not learn. Paddling her seems to make her realize whats exceptable and whats not. I only find myself paddling her no more then couple times a month which to me is not going to harm anyone. Now with my 20 mo old he will test me and no matter how many times I take him away from a situation he still goes back. I know he knows that im not happy with what he is doing too. Sometimes they can be harmful things like trying to climb on the stove or in the dishwasher. I will paddle his butt or hand. Not hard but enough to make him realize this is not ok. He can be very stubborn at times. If I didnt paddle Id go nuts. Hes not the type who will just sit in timeout. I wish that would work. To me there is paddling a child and there is abuse. If some other punishment works that to me is actually good. For some children though they may need paddling. Like I said before I think it depends on their personality as an individual.

i smack my children not so much the older one who is 12 much fro reason listed earlier. i do both the controlled and the complete mad woman smacking... not very often not every day mebbe once a week at most - the controlled is usually bedtime when they are supposed to be asleep and they are still pratting around an hour later - they ( twins) get warned " this is your first warning . now go to sleep" .... then later " this is your second warning now go to sleep" on the third time ." right 3rd time come downstairs please ( i make them come to me) then i smack them on the back of their legs fairly hard and send them to bed. its all very controlled - no lost temper no raised blood pressure! the other form is quite rare when i go stark staring insane , the insanity is not rare - am a big lunatic most of the time! but there are the odd occasion i smack out of anger - and i dont like doing this - although i do reserve my right to control my children , who are well behaved and good mannered, by smacking them when i see fit

very interesting to see everyones views here. It is such a difficult topic, how to discipline your children, and how to react to their willful disobedience/naughtiness.
Seems the trendy current idea is to have "time out", ie place them in a room on their own for a few minutes. We did this recently when our 3 year old son was very naughty. We only left him on the other room on his own for about a minute. He howled and I when I went to get him he was so distressed he had wet his pants ( he's completely toilet trained) I felt TERRIBLE and decided that for him this was a very cruel (much crueler than smacking) punishment which would not be used again.
I am really not sure how much credit you can take if your kids are well behaved. Seems some kids are basically good and others are basically horrors and it's all a bit of a lottery. Sure, you can mess up a good kid with bad parenting, but if you are given a horror seems to me there is no sure fire way to ensure he/she behaves well!