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what do you think about smacking?

98 replies

Rkayne · 05/07/2002 10:47

Just wondering what other people's thoughts were about smacking?

Personally, I'm really against it. DD is still quite young so I've not had much cause for it so far anyway, but the most I could ever see myself doing is a light tap on the hand (say if she was reaching for something dangerous or physically hurting another child). DH is of the generation that got rulers over the back of the hands in school and so is not quite as horrified by it as I am but would still reserve any physical punishment for truly bad behaviour.

But I recently heard that a friend of mine regularly smacks her kids for what seem to me like pretty minor offences - say not wanting to put on their shoes when they're in a hurry to get out the door. Ok, so I agree this is frustrating. It might even make you angry enough to 'feel' like giving a smack if your child is constantly testing you. But surely there are better ways to respond?

I'm really not trying to judge, just wanting to know what other people think.

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bloss · 06/07/2002 04:23

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susanmt · 06/07/2002 09:07

I can remember being smacked twice as a child - both times for doing something naughty and then lying about it - it was the lying that was the problem for my Mum. Although I dont smack my own children, I cant say I was damaged in any way, or humiliated or anything by my Mum doing this.
I have thought abou this a lot as we are also in Scotland, and it will soon be illegal to smack out children here. In many ways I am releived about that as it is such a difficult topic I like the fact that the decision has been made for me!

ks · 06/07/2002 09:27

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tigermoth · 06/07/2002 10:39

A big thumbs up for the reward system - and this is coming from a someone who is neither that pro- or that anti-smacking. I have, on the odd occasion, smacked my oldest son, but not for the last year or two.

When my son started his new school two terms ago, aged 7 and a half, he settled in well, socially and academically, but he was still on the naughty side in class. But is was outside school, attending clubs and courses, where he suddenly became a little horror, getting suspended from Beavers for a week, frazzled drama teacher phoning me at home for a special 'talk'. etc.

OK he was probably letting off steam - his new school had high standards of behaviour, but it was simply not on.

After a swearing incident at school, his headteacher called me in for a discussion. He told me about the schools reward system, and said he felt optimistic that my son would improve. I said I'd back this up with a reward system at home, but I have to say I was really sceptical. Smiley faces and stickers might work for a 5 year old, but wouldn't a nearly 8 year old find it all a bit uncool? I was sure reasoning, time outs, on the spot rewards administered in my ususal ad hoc way would work in the end.

Anyway, the head teacher suggested this: every day your son can get up to 2 smiley faces for good behaviour, so 14 in a week. Decide on a minimum limit he must get. (We agreed on 7). If he achieves this, he gets a reward. When he passes the minimum target easily each week, raise the stakes by setting a higher minimum, so he has to reach a different level (a bit 'gameboy' this!)

I ran this scheme past my son, thinking he would laugh in my face. To my utter amazement he immediatley made a smiley face chart. We also agreed that my son could have a bigger reward, like a gameboy game, if he 'saves' his reward weeks. This held great appeal.

Four months down the line and I can say the reward system is far more successful and popular with my son than anticipated. OK, I know it's difficult to determine the root cause of naughty or good behaviour. It might just be coincidence that he's now pretty OK (with the odd naughty blip) at his after school clubs. But he knows he gets a smiley face if the club leader tells me he has been good (I always ask) and this really seems to be an incentive.

I don't think this reward method appeals to his reason. I don't think he is mature enough for reason to work alone. Anyway, how many adults unfailingly listen to reason? And yes, we still do time outs sometimes, because some things have to be punished. And no, my son hasn't morphed into an angel.

But I know now that my son needs daily and tangible proof that being good makes life better for him. Smiley faces leading to gameboy games seem to do the trick very nicely

I still believe that occasional smacking in the context of a loving relationship does not automaticlly lead to lasting mental scars. But I'm now more convinced that smacking is an ineffective means of behaviour control, especially once children are old enough for other methods.

XAusted · 06/07/2002 11:42

As a child I was never smacked. My dad had the enviable ability to make any child listen without needing to smack them. Unfortunately, I have not inherited this! If my ds (aged 3)is very naughty then he does get a smack. I always warn him first and don't smack out of anger. Dd, however, is 5 and other punishments are more effective. If she's really bad then I sit her on the stairs. I then set the kitchen timer for 2 or 3 minutes and she has to stay there until the timer goes off. Doesn't work with ds yet but I'm sure it will when he's older. Too much smacking is probably not effective but if you save it for really bad behaviour and balance it with rewards for good behaviour then I don't have a problem with it.

bayleaf · 06/07/2002 12:21

Tigermoth - I had to smile at your thought that an 8 year old would find stickers chldish - I teach secondary pupils and my bottom set( set 5 of 5) year 10 ( age 15) REALLY want stickers to put on their reward cards ( the sort where you have to collect one of each sticker to get a certificate in assembly). Some of the more 'anti' ( ie the sort that are likely to be in trouble with the police before too long!) really try and pretend that they don't want them - but they are as transparent as anything - there 's no way that the stickers amke them into angels BUT they do definitely push them in the right direction and encourage them to participate in the lesson.

tigermoth · 06/07/2002 14:35

What is it with these stickers, Bayleaf? If ever my son's school ran out of them, I think mayhem would follow. We never had stickers in my day - just a 'very good work' or 'could try harder' comment and a tick.

I was surprised that your 15 year olds succumb to sticker power, still you live and learn! I guess it shows that the importance of praise and recognition never diminishes.

bayleaf · 06/07/2002 18:37

Indeed! - in fact if anyone wants to buy some we get them mail order from superstickers.com ( I THINK that's the address - if I don't re-post later then it is!) I have to say that it's only the less able academically that really want them - (altho' there is a sort of 'ironic' desire to collect them amongst top set) - middle groups by that age are immune!

jasper · 06/07/2002 22:45

ks, I agree with what you say and think the crux of your comment is "once the child is of reasoning age". Prior to this I think a smack sometimes works best which is why I said I agree with Janz about the Scottish legislation being the wrong way round - smacking seems more appropriate for younger, not older kids and the legislation bans smacking under threes.
I think it is frankly ridiculous to legislate for this, as it will do nothing to prevent parents who thrash the living daylights out of their kids (which we all condemn) from doing so.

susanmt · 07/07/2002 01:38

Jasper, the ting about legislating for it is that it actually does reduce, in the long term, all types of child abuse. If it is illegal then it becomes less and less socially acceptable to do it and the overall rate goes down, so the Scandinavian research shows. At least if you legislate for it there is a sanction for parents who do thrash their children, if you can catch them at it.

bloss · 07/07/2002 03:43

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tigermoth · 07/07/2002 10:03

Yes, Bloss, I find conversation about a contentious subject rather than a straight 'no', works with both my toddler and my oldest son. It even works with my husband sometimes! Distraction from the specific argument while still addressing the general issue. Trial and error led me to this. Lots of both I assure you.

Wow, I can't even remember on what thread I wrote about this. I didn't realise it would also work well with a pre verbal toddler. How interesting.

mears · 07/07/2002 18:14

I am afraid that I have to own up as one of those parents who have smacked and felt so much better for it. It may not be approved of by most but on the occasions that I have been driven to the edge by a willful, screaming, beligerant child who does not respond to all the other suggested methods, the immediate response from a well timed and placed paddle ( nicer term) is worth it

ks · 07/07/2002 18:28

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asha · 07/07/2002 20:27

i do not agree with smacking children. if u do smack ure child they will mimic ure violent behaviour and hit other kids, and how can u punish them for mimicing your behaviour. me and my sister were both hit as a child and in turn both seem to resolve arguments with r fists. iam having my first baby in nov, and although i will disipline my child i will under no circumstances smack them. no other human being has the right to hurt anybody else.

Rkayne · 08/07/2002 09:14

I too live in Scotland, and while I would welcome any legistlation that is going to help protect children who are really being abused, I'm not sure this is the way to do it. From what I understand, the proposed legislation could get the police or social services involved from as much as a single smack on the bum. And meanwhile, those people who are really battering their kids will just keep doing it (I think Jasper already made that point).

Tigermouth and Bloss - can one of you tell me about this 'patter' method of distraction? DD is only 15 months, but already developing a very good understanding of what I say to her. She's a good natured child, but definitely has a 'cheeky' streak in her. Simply saying 'no' to something usually just makes her laugh so I'm always trying new ways to get her to understand and listen to what I want her to do.

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angharad · 08/07/2002 09:33

I find it interesting that no-one has commented on the other part of the Scottish legislation, whereby parents will no longer be able to "discipline" children with slippers, belts etc.. or by hitting them round the head. This is still quite common, and I'm amazed at the number of parents I see in Cardiff on a Saturday giving their kidsw a clout round the head. I'm completely opposed to smacking and although I get frustrated with the kids (esp the boys who are younger) I know that although we have episodes where many parents would smack, for me it would be more about frustration than correcting the behaviour.

As for the TV programme I thought it showed that giving parents support and information can help change attitudes, as has been demonstarted in Scandanavian countries where smacking has been long banned!

Rkayne · 08/07/2002 10:30

I agree that providing support and information is really, really crucial. A lot of parents smack because they've never been taught any other method of dealing with their children's bad behaviour. I have a friend who I think just goes in looking for arguments with her daughter, because she assumes the worst to start, and also doesn't really know any better. I can see where information, education, support etc would be a huge help to her.

I also would support legislation that banned hitting children, I just think it needs to be very carefully written. It certainly isn't going to make things better if you start getting children taken away from their parents at the drop of a hat.

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tigermoth · 08/07/2002 11:07

Rkayne, look under Behaviour/development: Answering Back - sorry, can't do links!

I think this is what bloss was referring to originally (and she coined the phrase 'patter method' - I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong.

As you can see, the thread was about 5 year olds - don't know if you could use this with a 15 month toddler - but bloss seems to have had success.
HTH

tigermoth · 08/07/2002 11:08

where did that winking face come from!

Rhubarb · 08/07/2002 11:30

A lot of the arguments parent's use for smacking is that it is the only form of punishment for them that works, but then you suggest other ways and they refuse to try them. The TV programme was really good for showing that other forms of discipline DO work. The Christian couple were really disappointing, they said they didn't like to smack their children, but sometimes had to. Well if you didn't like smacking your children you would be open to other suggestions wouldn't you? Seems that they didn't want to give up smacking just out of principle.

I really cannot understand any of the arguments used for smacking.

Rkayne · 08/07/2002 12:32

thanks tigermoth - found the old link. I see what you mean about probably not working for a 15 month old, but I'll definitely keep it mind for future.

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SueDonim · 08/07/2002 15:02

I too think that giving parents other skills to help them deal with their children is crucial. I used to live in Scotland and support the ban but I really think money needs to be invested in education.

I'm now living in Asia and have yet to see anyone hit a child or even shout or yell at them. They seem to cherish their children so much - in fact, not just their own children but all children. So many people make a fuss of my 6yr old DD, whereas she would be invisible in the UK. However, it's not child friendly here, in terms of baby changing facilites and such things!

Empress · 08/07/2002 19:57

Just a quick contribution - how can you teach someone that hitting is wrong, by hitting them? It's crazy. Saw that TV prog, that awful woman shouting 'you do NOT hit me' then reinforcing the 'lesson' by walloping her little child, a quarter her size. Disgusted me. The message is 'violence is ok if you believe you're right'.. rubbish.

ks · 08/07/2002 20:32

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