what do you think about smacking?

[Rkayne]

Just wondering what other people's thoughts were about smacking?

Personally, I'm really against it. DD is still quite young so I've not had much cause for it so far anyway, but the most I could ever see myself doing is a light tap on the hand (say if she was reaching for something dangerous or physically hurting another child). DH is of the generation that got rulers over the back of the hands in school and so is not quite as horrified by it as I am but would still reserve any physical punishment for truly bad behaviour.

But I recently heard that a friend of mine regularly smacks her kids for what seem to me like pretty minor offences - say not wanting to put on their shoes when they're in a hurry to get out the door. Ok, so I agree this is frustrating. It might even make you angry enough to 'feel' like giving a smack if your child is constantly testing you. But surely there are better ways to respond?

I'm really not trying to judge, just wanting to know what other people think.

On Wednesday I lifted ds away from the TV on numerous occasions, (because he he kept on swirching it on and off, and getting excited if you said "no" ) and put him onto the top step of the stair in the hallway (we live on the first and second floors of a conversion). I thought this technque was not having any effect - but yesterday, he started switching the TV off again while we were watching the news and dh (who'd been out on Wednsday) said "OUT - go into the hall!" .... which he duly did and then lay down started to cry! I went to comfort him, explained what he'd done wrong and brought him back into the room. A wee while later, he did the same thing - this time I was the one who told him to go into the hall, which he did, again lying down to cry! This time dh went to comfort him, so that he wouldn't be seen as the ogre. So maybe my efforts on Wednsday did work - and we now have a form of "self-imposed" punishment.

JanZ has your TV got a child proof setting on it? My ds used to do the same until by a flook I discovered you could put a child lock instruction on it via the remote control. Very handy!

Jessi - I'll check it out. There are various commands that can be accessed only via the remote and you never know, that might be one of them! It would save a lot of hassle - although we'll see tonight whether we have cracked it via the "hall" route!

SofiaAmes, your story reminds me of my mum's situation.
She is the stepmom to a 10 and 12 yo boy and girl. Their mum is "amazing" with them : they are punished like mad (the boy gets at least a smack a day according to both kids) but she only physically disciplines them and does not "talk" to them or warn them. The daughter is about to fail her year in school and it's my mum who calls the teacher to discuss options as the mum has not done it ! Or it's my mum who suggest that the kids need to go to the dentist !
My mum has them every 2 WE and she will wash all their clothes (the ones they are wearing) and send them back tidy and ironed but also she buys them decent clothes (not brands but nice looking ones), she spends time with them, teaches them to cook or the value of money (they recently learned to set up a stall at a boot sale),... she can be strict though I don't think she smacks them - but they love her discipline and will call muy mum - not their dad - when they are not with them. She is also the one who tells her kids to send their mum a postcard while on holiday- they would not think of it themselves.... but the mother does not ask her kids to do the same for their father - much to their father's chagrin. The father akso told his ex-wife that "Thank God my new wife has some knowledge about raising kids...." - I think the ex-wife agrees to a point as she will ask my mum for advice.

Oops! The "hallway!" admonishment is backfiring slighly! Last night ds was running into the hallway, lying down and pretending to cry and then running back into the lounge and asking for a cuddle - and then repeating the whole process!

A converstion i had with a dad at work said he thinks they should bring back the cane at school. I said to him would you hit your kids with a stick his answer was no. I said then why let someone else do it then. I remember those days when they could cane u willy nilly some of them enjoyed it im sure.

Ian

I don't feel that smacking has any place in dicipline.

Apart from the fact that ,for instance, if your child hits another child and you smack them and say "don't hit X " what kind of confusing message is that sending.
Also when do you stop smacking them, when they get big enough to hit back??

Alot of people say I have tried everything smacking is the last resort but when asked if it is working any better than any other form of discipline they say no
Also sometimes a smack is issued when the parent has lost control and it is more out of anger than anything else.

I don't think there is any need for it and don't beleive that it helps anymore than any other forms of discipline. I haven't read the whole thread, I am answering the OP.

My father used to be a member of an organisation to ban CP. I have never hit my children. It is against the law in England now if you leave a mark (silly English compromise which still say it's okay to hit a child because they are smaller than you are).

In other words if you do it so it's effective it is illegal. If you do it so it's ineffective what's the point in doing it.

I never sit by and let it pass if I see it just as I wouldn't let someone beat up a tramp in the street. Moral duty to intervene.

Custardo, Mears I agree with you
Well done for saying so too.
I've been burnt before on a thread like this, so from now on I'm staying away.

and just before anyone jumps donw my throat

I have smacked both my kids once each and I regret it as it was a loss of control on my part and didn't help anything.
I also think that there is a difference between 'smacking' as a punichment and when I have and will continue(only had to do it once so far with each child) smakc there hand away from a flame when thay hadn't yet learned about fire and saying something would ahve been too late. it was then followed up by the reasons you can't touch flames

i think its great - smack all over the place. smackity smack smack - its wonderful - the euphoria i feel afterwards - but then i am catholic

Xenia you should be at work

s'm I

What is it that ks is posting that is consistently deleted afterwards???

shit just seen my last post - i mentioned my older child - who is 12

he is now 17. oy vey.

For the record, I made a conscious effort to quit smacking a couple of years ago and have stuck to it.

It has been replaced however by manic bellowing that I honestly think is worse, as far as the kids are concerned.

The Children Act 2004 made the changes. I would like every child in England to know the law and every parent to obey it. What it means is that you cannot cause actual bodily harm to a child which the Government takes to mean leaves a mark. You cannot now lawfully apply assault and battery to a child.

"Section 58: Reasonable punishment

236. Section 58 removes the defence of reasonable chastisement in any proceedings for an offence of assault occasioning actual bodily harm, unlawfully inflicting grievous bodily harm, causing grievous bodily harm with intent, or cruelty to a child. It also prevents the defence being relied upon in any civil proceedings where the harm caused amounted to actual bodily harm, which has the same meaning as it has for the purposes of section 47 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. The defence would still be available in proceedings before the Magistrates Court for common assault on a child.

237. The section removes the defence by providing that battery of a child cannot be justified as reasonable punishment. Battery is any unwanted application of force to the body of another and is more commonly called "assault". However it has long been recognised by the law that a parent or person with parental authority may use reasonable punishment to correct a child. This is the defence of reasonable chastisement or "reasonable punishment". Other defences to battery are not affected by section 58.

238. Subsections (1) and (2) remove the defence in relation to the offences mentioned above. The parent is thus in the same position as if he had assaulted an adult or a child over whom he exercised no parental role.

239. Subsection (3) removes the defence in civil proceedings for any battery if the battery caused actual bodily harm. Subsection (4) provides that 'actual bodily harm' in subsection (3) has the same meaning as has been established in relation to criminal proceedings. "

bring back the stocks is what i say

To those who say that only smacking will work for a toddler who cannot be reasoned with, much of their challenging behaviour at this age is actually develpmentally appropriate eg exploring, naysaying, refusal to get dressed, aggression. If parents can get over seeing these behaviours as "defiance" but more that of a human being in the making, then perhaps they would be more inclined to use gentler correction techniques which do not involve a bigger person using force on a child or which insult the physical integrity of the child.

And no one seems to have claimed to need to smack their older children. My mother stopped caning me once I was old enough to snatch the cane away from her. If there are more discipline tools at that age, there are similar tools which are appropriate for toddlers that do not require smacking eg distraction, physical removal from dangerous object.

As a parent, patience is a virtue. So long as a parent models the desired behaviour and works at maintaining a lovimg and respectful relationship with the child, the child will get there eventually hth

ahem. Welcome to MN, Jillj73 / ian, and thank you for reviving this thread of 4 years ago, in order to discuss use of the cane in school.

I hadn't noticed. It does go back a long way. So the changes I posted which took effect last year and now ban most smacking in England help children even more. Lots on the NSPCC web site by the way.

I have felt much more guilty over shouting very loudly at my children (it's been so loud I've literally seen them jump several inches in the air) than their very occasional smacks. I smacked my DD once when we were crossing the road and she decided to sit down in the middle and refused to walk any further. I couldn't pick her up because I was carrying my baby in the car seat in the other hand. My DD's school have a policy of questioning parents who bring their children in late for school - on the mornings when my DS (3.2) is causing us to be late (despite being up in plenty of time) by fooling around while I'm trying to get him dressed, or running the wrong way up the road once we're out of the house, I have given him a little smack on the bottom. He also hit me on the face once when we were on an outing and again I decided a smack on the bottom was justified. Sometimes, with the best will in the world, you do not have time to distract/reason/give time outs, whatever. Real life is going on at the same time as your toddler is busy exerting his/her will. It isn't perfect but then I never expected to be a perfect mother and I certainly hope one thing my children learn is that no-one is perfect, not even their adoring parents.

And another thing - my Mum was not a smacker but, sadly, I do not have a good relationship with her. My Dad remarried when I was 13 and had three more children with another woman. She was a smacker, not in any way out of control, it was just something she did not feel was inappropriate and used quite frequently as far as I know. Those 3 children are all adults now and are very close to her and have a relationship with their Mum I seriously envy. I'm not from the "smacking never did anyone any harm school" but I seriously feel that it is ultimately not the big deal we all make it out to be. We're not talking child abuse here.