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Original poster

Smacking! At what age do people thinking it's appropriate

480 replies

AlanasMum · 21/03/2007 17:14

I was at coffee morning the other day and my 15m dd was playing up a little. Another mum commented and said wow I bet she gets a lot of smacks. I must have looked a bit shocked as it hadn't occured to me to smack dd before.

I've always been on the fence on this subject and figured I'd cross that bridge when I came to it. Which appears to be coming quicker than I anticipated.

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Greenshoots · 26/03/2007 12:48

Kittywits, for the record not everyone does accept that there is a difference between smacking and child abuse. I do think smacking is a form of abuse - albeit usually one of the milder forms - but certainly on the same scale as beating/punching/kicking, just lower down that scale. I realise this isn't a majority view and is unpalatable to those who feel their right to hit their children should not be challenged. However it is my sincere belief.

Children are now the only people in our society who can legally be hit. We've eradicated corporal punishment in the judicial system, in our schools and everywhere else, gradually, on our journey towards civilisation. Parental smacking is the last bastion of legalised violence, and IMO it should and will eventually be banned.

deepinlaundry · 26/03/2007 12:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MellowMa · 26/03/2007 12:50

Message withdrawn

prettybird · 26/03/2007 12:56

Slightly at a tangent, my mum was hurt at the weekend because she fell badly when trying to get out of bedin hopsital. She has a head injury, so doesn't understadn that she cannot walk unaided. However, the nurses are not allowed to put up the sides of her bed as that would "infirnge her liberties". So instead, she is free to get hurt.

With Civil liberties and rights also go responsibilities and that is part of the "civilised" society we live in: but children need to learn how to behave appropriately in that society.

It is not accpetable to force another adult to do something they don't want to do - yet we "force" our children to do many things they don't want to do, eg have a bath, go to the toilet, be nice to their friends, go shopping, leave the playground, go to bed.... The relationship with a child is not directly analogous with that of an adult.

prettybird · 26/03/2007 13:01

I was smacked as a child, but can't remember any of the occasions. However, I can remember being threatened with having my mouth washed out with soap if I continued to swear! (I stopped! ).

I have an excellent and loving relationship with both my parents (even though mum is not "mum" at the moment 'cos of the head injury she got 5 weeks ago )

Psycho · 26/03/2007 13:03

Greeny I agree entirely with your arguemnt and think thast smacking cannot be morally or intellectually justified.

I would suggest though that to call those parents (such as myself) who have rarely and in failure smacked their chidren, child abusers and bullies, just inflames the deabte to entrenched positions and does not really (or necessarily) reflect those parents realtionships with their children or their overall parenting, which is probably not abusive.

Can you do something 'abusive' (as you term smacking) and not be a child abuser?

It really is an extreme and inflammotory thing to label some one.

I do agree with all your points and only take issue with this aspect.

As have failed myself on a few occasions

MellowMa · 26/03/2007 13:03

Message withdrawn

soph28 · 26/03/2007 13:04

I really don't understand the whole - how else will my child learn that something is hot/dangerous etc. unless I smack?

Sorry, but that seems weird and really underestimates a child's ability to understand.

What's wrong with saying, 'Oh HOT tea, don't touch!' etc.

When ds was a bit younger (from 12mths onwards) we would test the bath water to see how hot it was and then run more cold if needed, I would touch his hand to my cup of tea so that he could feel it was warm and then say, 'hot', I would give him his meals slightly warmer than usual and we would blow on it to cool it down etc.

Now he's just 2 and understands very well. He knows that if he touches something hot he may well burn himself. so he doesn't do it. I don't need to tell him, let alone smack him.

I'm not getting at Singingmum or anyone else who gives a light smack every now and then, I just don't think it's necessary.

matildax · 26/03/2007 13:11

soph 28, if you have exhausted all other options and time and safety is of an issue, most parents will do anything to get their point across,and to protect their dc.I am not saying what i have done is right,but at the time it was right for me and my child, and the outcome of my actions was that my child did not repeat something that had/could cause a great deal of harm.

FrannyandZooey · 26/03/2007 13:15

Don't put your hot tea etc where your child could get it! If you find it so stressful and time-consuming to teach your child things by explaining to them, wouldn't it simply be easier to not leave the iron within reach of a small child? Why are all these hot and dangerous things where children can get to them in the first place?

MellowMa · 26/03/2007 13:18

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matildax · 26/03/2007 13:21

oh to be in an ideal world eh franny....... i rest my case now, it seems to me that some people are reading this thread with their eyes and minds wide shut.

prettybird · 26/03/2007 13:23

I would count it as smacking if I "smacked" it away from the hot iron. I know that lifting the child out of the way (or not having the ironing board up in the first place!) would be the better option - but if I didn't have two hands available (because I am holding a cup of hot tea in the other ) then that might the quickest and safest option.

prettybird · 26/03/2007 13:24

.. and persoanlly, it's a situation I would never have got into in the first place! Even the "smackers" would argue that prevention is better than cure!

Greenshoots · 26/03/2007 13:26

Personally Psycho I wouldn't say to a parent who had smacked once in anger and then regretted it "you are a Child Abuser", because everyone does something technically abusive at some point in life - we're fallible - and I think that in order for a term like "child abuser" to become part of a person's identity, - it probably would have to be sustained/deliberate/not regretted. The smack itself IS abusive IMO - but the parent who delivers it once in temper and is then mortified isn't habitually or definitively "an abusive parent". Good people do bad things sometimes, and decent mature adults know when they have done womething wrong and can admit it, apologise and move on. Which isn't a bad thing for a child to witness, unfortunate though the act of hitting is.

However a parent who smacks, intends to smack again, and is happy to justify it in a debate such as this - yes, in my opinion that is an abusive parent and that child is being abused. Anyone who smacks a child in cold blood, as part of a programme of behaviour modification with fear, humiliation and pain as the mechanisms for controlling behaviour - is abusing and deserves to be criminalised in my opinion.

Psycho · 26/03/2007 13:29

Ok Greeny, you've answered my question on the other thread to...

and now I agree with EVERYTHING you say

(to do with smacking, you were so wrong about the party bags)

yellowrose · 26/03/2007 13:30

It is extremely tedious to have to tell a child not to touch something dangerous 100 times a day. But it DOES work. Eventually they learn. A physical enforcement of whatever it is you are trying to teach them is really not necessary, apart from physically removing them from danger. This is what you do when a baby starts to crawl, you simly move them. You can do the same with a toddler.

My son went through a "I will do the opposite of what mummy says" phase, all toddlers do, but this is when you should be even more VERBALLY forceful, explain what they are doing is dangerous and tell them not to do it again. Ds is now 2.9 yo, he started pointing at the oven ages ago when it is on saying "hot" and I have said "ds, please don't touch the oven now, I am going to put it on". He now points at anything that we have said is dangerous and actually says "hot" or "careful" or whatever. In fact CAREFUL is one of his favourite words, he has told old people coming down stairs in shops "careful" at the top of his voice

It has become a game and he is quite obviously proud of the fact that he understands.

Twiglett · 26/03/2007 13:31

interesting

I know parents who take that stance greenshoots .. I've heard them say to their children 'mummy doesn't love you when you do that'

I know which I find more abusive personally

Greenshoots · 26/03/2007 13:33

I would say both were abusive. Which delivered the more damage would depend on the child and the parent I think. But I don't think "mental abuse is worse" is a good justification for physical abuse.

FrannyandZooey · 26/03/2007 13:34

Why do we need an ideal world to put our tea out of reach of a child? I would never dream of punishing a child for reaching out to explore something dangerous that I had put within their reach.

soph28 · 26/03/2007 13:35

matildax, I am not saying you are wrong. I don't know you or your dc, nor do I know what situations you have been in and what you have tried.

All I'm saying is that I haven't found it necessary to smack IME.

Explaining things to my child is not stressful or time consuming. My first response is to say 'HOT, don't touch' or whatever, then explain why. Have never needed to do anything else as that has always worked.

kittywaitsfornumber6 · 26/03/2007 13:37

God yes, now my mother was and given half the chance still is extremely abusive emotionally. She smacked me occasionally for being a right madam and I have no problems with that at all,now...... the emotional scars from years of mental torture those I will be battling with for the rest of my life. I wish to god she could have simply smacked me.

I am not saying that one form of abuse is better than another.

I am saying that the odd smack is simply not abuse and should not be considered as such.

yellowrose · 26/03/2007 13:37

My mum slapped me really hard once on the cheek when I was 21. I had done something awful and malicious. She was forever mortified about it and I have NEVER forgotton the scene. I bet small children remember too. I wasn't physically hurt, I felt humiliated. I think it was fortylpus who talked about "humiliation". I agree I think even a bit of pushing or gentle smacking can humiliate a child, esp. if it is done in front of other people.

Greenshoots · 26/03/2007 13:38

All thi harping about hot tea and irons is just a red herring anyway. If you're near enough to smack, you're near enough to restrain without smacking.

Tutter · 26/03/2007 13:41

a question for you all:

did you ever deem it necessary to mention it to family members (who you might leave in charge of your dc) that you would not want smacking to be used as a form of discipline?

on one hand i wouldn't want ILs to be offended that i thought they might, but also, maybe it's better to be clear from the outset (and i know that dh and his brother were smacked)?