Another child bit my baby in playgroup... Advice please!

[littletree]

I've finally gotten around to bringing my nearly one year old to a playgroup. It was all going swimmingly until the end when they brought out bikes and scooters for the little ones to push around/ride. My little guy was sitting on a horsey and a little boy who was 3 came along smiling and pinched my sons cheek rather hard. I took his hand away and said that wasn't nice and stroked my babys cheek and said 'gently'. The other boy then copied me and stroked my son. No harm done. About 15 minutes later he charged over to my son and I thought was nuzzling my son playfully. But then I noticed to my horror that his jaws were clamped on his shoulder in a bite. I was horrified and yanked my boy away. There was a general uproar and much sympathy from the other mums and the boy's mum finally came over and reprimanded him. I understand that this little boy is something of a bully and it was absolutely awful watching my baby get hurt like that. There is no violence in my home and I don't want him learning these things from other children. Help! Is this just a fact of life that I will have to accept? What should I do when this happens? Any advice and shared experiences would be greatly appreciated.

And can someone call social services please. I'd be gald if they did. I can't get anywhere with the b. They're always in meetings.

Yes- we occasionally get warnings. In our case ds1 pinches children mainly to get them to scream so he can see inside their mouths. In that case he tends to size them up with a smile on his face so in that case there's plenty of time to protect.

It's harder when he pinches ds2 due to frustration as that can appear out of nowhere. Although I've noticed that when pinching out of frustration he tends to pinch ds2's arm- which is a lot less painful than the face. It doesn't happen too often as he prefers to hit himself and whilst I loathe and hate self injurous behaviour, it is preferable to a 2 year old getting it in the neck.

agree it's ok to tell other kids off. I have no problem with other mothers telling my DS off if he deserves it as it reinforces good behaviour.
I really really don't like the idea of some lady whispering threats into my DS's ear i.e. "I'm a very bad witch, if you touch him again I'm going to come at night and eat your ears!" - that frankly is a step too far IMO.

Ah, but Jimjams you try to supervise! And you do care. Some parents really don't much care. With the kid who bit ds recently, even I could see the clear signs that he was sizing up ds for a big bite but unfortunately they were in the playhouse which is bolted to the wall and the only way in is by crawling through the doorway so I literally couldn't get in there fast enough to stop him - though I did yell 'NO!' - to no effect whatsoever. And for some children a bite may be nothing, but for others it can be quite terrifying and traumatising so it does deserve to be taken seriously - and that may just mean taking the child quickly and quietly away. And Jimjams, as you often point out, children with SN can get picked on quite a bit by NT children. It's totally unacceptable IMO.

lisalisa

My comment of "i'll have her" was totally tongue in cheek, not very good with those icon things - need a sarcastic one.

Each time I am given a report I ask what my DS did to provoke an attack - since he can be a cheeky monkey. I would never say anything to the biter, it up to the parents and the nursery to decide what is the appropriate action.

Thought I would clear my name before I'm accused of hunting down 2 year olds to "have words with them" !!!!

Honestly speaking if my child is traumatised by a child who is not being controlled by his/her mother, I wouldn't think twice about telling him off. If the mother doesn't want the child to be told off by strangers/friends/relatives she must control him herself.

If I have to choose between let my child be traumatised by an unruly child or have the other child traumatised or confused because other person told him off... my option is very clear, my child's needs go first.

I watched a situation unfold once in a playground where there was one kid picking up sand and throwing it in other children's faces. I bided my time, waiting for Mum or Dad to come and stop him but no-one appeared (and I couldn't work out who he belonged to). Eventually, he threw some at my dd1 (aged 2 - he was about 4). I went over and said "Throwing sand isn't very nice, you could hurt someone", picked up dd1 and walked off. I would have no qualms about saying something along similar lines in similar situations.

If I saw a child bullying another I wouldnt think twice about stepping in!

In fact, I was at a kids party and a 5yr old boy was bullying the other kids and no one did a thing about it. The child I was in charge of had leukemia and a 'line' in his chest for drugs. If the 'bully' had hit him and dislodged the line my child would have been in serious danger.

The other parents were looking very uncomfortable about this child but no one did anything so I took control. I took him into a corner and threatened him! I told him that I would make him sit next to me for the whole party and he would play no more games or have tea or prizes. I was very angry but controlled......his mother wasnt around or Iwould have spoken to her first.

It worked. he was as good as gold for the rest of the party and ALL the Mums came and said thank you to me.

If my child was doing this it would not bother me at all for someone to deal with him. I would then deal with him again. Controversial, I know.

I would have NO qualms about another parent letting my DS know if he was behaving in an anti-social way - (if they were on the spot and i wasn't) but I would expect it to be done in the same way that I would address another child - firmly but politely, and with the 'positive re-inforcement' style that we have to keep reminding ourselves of! I'm a big intervener in the sand-pit and in Sainsbury's last week told off some 8 year olds who were kicking some product from the shelves around on the floor!

It isn't the child's fault that they are not being supervised, and I think it's better to intervene constructively before every parent is hating him/her, and getting ready to offload anger that should be directed at the parent, not the child.

It's important that a small child is told of immediately after the incident. No point going to get the mother for her to tell the child of 10 minutes later. Just say "That was not nice. Biting is not nice" and walk away. So easy peasy, isn't it?
There can be several reason why a child bites. Perhaps the child is tired, having a bad day. Perhaps no excuse, but it doesn't mean the child is a thug with no empathy for others.
I actually think it is also the responsibility of parents with very small children/babies to look after them. If you send them into a toddler playground where the kids are 2 or 3, then yes, they can be bitten or pushed. IMO, it's no big deal. I think it's far worse when my own child bites someone than when he is bitten. It's not like I let him play with pitbulls.

littletree, I haven't read all the responses to your initial message but I posted something similar a month or so ago with the title 'question for mums of 'gentle' toddlers' or something like that and I got some very similar responses to yours. My problem was also with my dd at playgroup being generally manhandled. She's quite small and light and not a shrinking violet by any means but is quiet and I guess 'thoughtful' is the word. She's also not an angel! She's a bossy little madam when she's at home . BUT in the end I stopped taking her to playgroup as it clearly was having a bad effect on her. She would no longer go on anything at the playground if there were other children around and stopped having any kind of attempts at social interaction with other kids, especially boys (who were the ones who 'attacked' her mostly at playgroup). I totally understand how hard it is for moms of kids who are boisterous and I also understand on a different level what Jimjams is saying about having a child with difficulties. But we do live in a world in which there have to be some acceptable 'norms' and some not and in the same way we wouldn't accept unprovoked aggression to ourselves as adults, neither should we accept it from kids. I may find myself the mother of a biter or hitter as dd gets older and will have the hard job of dealing with that but I certainly will deal with it and will never take the attitude that it's just something kids must go through etc. Even now after a good while away from playgroup dd's still very wary of other kids. It's ironic, I took her to playgroup to increase her social confidence and all that's happened is that its diminished drastically. It makes me very sad. The thing that most got to me with my experiences was not in fact the kids but the mothers. Mostly they were nowhere to be found and I almost think the kids were playing up so much because they were not getting attention from anyone. And when the moms were around they were completely unprepared to deal with their child's behaviour and I was made to feel the one in the wrong even though I never shouted at these kids, the most I did was to gently move one out of the way. Weirdly, their mums would always show up at that moment so clearly they are bothered that their kids aren't getting mistreated. None of the kids who hurt my dd (and they did hurt her - once a bit line of bruises across her ribs, once a split lip and cracked tooth, as well as countless bumped heads and bites) had learning difficulties, they were bright and likable kids in most other ways, they were just out of control.

I am just so happy I never took my sons to parent and toddler playgroups! going on this thread, half the parents would have hated us!
I had a feeling at the time that playgroups were more trouble than they were worth. I felt - still feel actually - that any regular meetings of parents and littlies are doomed to failure unless a professional non parent person (s) has oveall responsibility for all the children. My sons did their socialising at nursery and childminders. I realise this is less of an option for SAHMs. TBH going to parent run playgroups is one reason I'd find it hard to be an SAHM of babies and toddlers.

My two sons were lively, sociable toddlers. Both went through biting phases (a very brief one in my ds2's case). MY ds 2 was better at playing nicely with other toddlers. My ds2 was prone to get too overexcited and hit out. Agree with hmb, you get what you are given. I strongly dispute that all biters or hitters are the product of uncaring parents who do not watch and discipline.

I'd have no qualms about telling off another child, but only in a matter of fact way as in 'it's wrong to bite, stop it' rather than 'you are a nasty child for biting'. If the child's parents overheard you saying the latter they could IMO be justifiably be cross with you. Two wrongs don't make a right.

If you feel uncomfortable telling off in public do distraction instead. Get the biting child interested in someting else - get them to move away. Or do both - ' it's naughty to bite, don't do that followed by look, they're getting out the toy cars over there....'

Little tree, going back to your situation, I wonder if a nearly one year old is old enough for that particular playclub? don't know much about these things, but could you find one for under 2's? three year olds don't mix that well with babies IME. Rough play is a fact of life for older toddlers but as you've seen this isn't always good for babies. 3 year olds aren't technically old enough to be thought out bullies as far as I am concerned, though they can do bullying things. FWIW I think you were right to intervene as you did. But I think this play club isn't for you.

oops - second para, ds1 was prone to get overexcited.

Hmmmm....
All food for thought. I hadn't really considered that there are different playgroups for different ages. (Sorry to sound daft but I'm a first time Mom!) This was my very first attempt at playgroup as I had been feeling guilty about not taking him along to one. He also goes to the creche at my gym and the staff all know and love him now. I asked the staff how he interacts with the other children and they told me that he joins in occasionally but mostly plays on his own. I am uncertain whether this is a good or bad thing so I thought taking him to a playgroup would help draw him out. He was quite happily interacting until the pinching/biting incident. And, from what others have said I am now afraid that it will put him off being outgoing. I have also taken him to baby sign language which is a bit more of a controlled atmosphere. I may try some more places like that- gymboree, etc. I think I may have one more go at the playgroup with more open eyes though first.

I do agree that there are people who don't seem to care about what there children are up to and most likely there children will grow up to be like them and so the cycle continues... And, yes I will say quite frankly that these are not the sort of children I want my bubba to be socializing with.

Strangerthanfiction-
Are you american?

I mean 'their children' brain not functioning yet- I need some coffee!!!!

Littletree - I think it's very normal for a one year old to play on their own. They really don't start properly interacting and actually playing with other children til much later. One thought is to look around at different playgroups, because they do have different feels and maybe this one isn't the right one for you two. Some playgroups do tend to have mums that sit around and chat whilst paying little attention to their children - which makes incidents like this more likely. Other playgroups can be much more interactive. I've found subtle things like the placing of chairs make all the difference. If they put chairs out for the mums in a circle or in groups then they sit on them and stay put. If (like the playgroup I go to) there aren't actually any grown up chairs you perch on a kiddies chair at the activity your little one's doing, you move around, talk to everyone (including the children), get down to the kiddies' level, etc and it works much better. Don't be put off by this one experience. I know it was horrible but your baby won't remember. good luck

Hello littletree, no I'm not American, but you're the second person to ask me that! What made you think so? Is it because I said 'mom' somewhere instead of mum? I'm Jewish and we tend to say mom rather than mum. Dunno why.

Yes, I also meant to say that there are other groups that work better than general rough and tumble playgroups. I take dd to a library story time group which she loves and also to a soft play area where the kids aren't on such a free for all as there are no chairs for the moms to sit down on as hatter pointed out!

My dd's nearly 21 months now and she still largely plays alone so I wouldn't worry about that.

I do agree with Tigermoths's post below - and especially the reminder that biting toddlers are not necessarily the product of bad parents - and that 3 year olds are too young to be bullies.

It's because young children are hardly in sustained control of what they do, and have little grasp of their effect on others that we do need to keep a close eye on them, help them to understand things - and not take it personally if one slips through the net!

agree very much with blu and tigermoth. Biting does not equal bad parenting. If you have a persistant biter you tend to have to look at your parenting more than most- but it doesn't always help. Has been the experience of my friend anyway. Agree as well that 3 year olds are to young to be bullies. Doesn't mean thay can't behave badly or unkindly, but they don't have the theory of miind required to be a true bully.

Hey, of course biting does not equal bad parenting, I don't think anyone here has said that. But not being around to supervise what damage a known biting child might do to a much younger and smaller child, in my opinion, does equal bad parenting.

Agree with strangerthanfiction! And I notice these little american things because I am... (american that is)

But however closely you supervise you can't always get in to prevent an attack. I've been sat right next to ds1 when he's gone for ds2 out of the blue- frequently. In fact I've been sat right next to ds1 when he's gone for me out of the blue as well. When he was going through his phase of pinching his nursery workers, his LSA, my mum, dh, ds2 and me all had a number of scratches on us- and all his LSA could do was ask for his nails to be cut. Luckily adults were more common targets than children (except poor old ds2) and obviously he was being supervised extremely closely by any adult in his company. It was rare we could actually prevent an attack though (and in fact when children were getting it- it was something I talked about in detail with nursery- they said they couldn't prevent attacks- and he had full time one to one).

If children are going to attack then they can be very fast.

And as I said on the other thread- I find it much easier when he is the one being lumped (which is luckily more common) than when he is the one doing the lumping.

Jimjams, oh how I agree with you about not being able to step in every time. Ds was lightning fast! The 'victim' most often was his older sister! And as you said on a much earlier posting, the child doesn't distinguish between biting and hitting or pushing. It is just that biting seems so much worse from an adult point of view.

Thankfully ds has now grown out of it, but it was a horrible phase, and I dreaded going anywhere with him. I had to get out with him because if I didn't life was intolerable.

If I can put in a plea? It is awful if your child is bitten, but it is also awful to be the mother of the biter! I have been both and I find it much easier to cope with my child being the victim.

Having a child that bites is not always caused by poor parenting. Sometimes it is the luck of the draw. I have one of each.