Come and be a Better Parent with us in the Virtual Village

[Letsgoforawalk]

This was originally started by Another Monkey, the virtual village refers to the phrase that 'It takes a village to raise a child'.

You are welcome to vent, to ask for advice or to give us the benefit of your experience. The only thing we all seem to have in common is that we are all either ‘in there’ or have ‘been there’.

Perfection is not the goal, we are more about, as monkey brilliantly put it “choosing one thing to be less crap at at a time”.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child
How to be a Better Parent: No Matter How Badly Your Children Behave or How Busy You Are

Potentially useful websites (useful in quite different ways…..)
//www.theorangerhino.com
//www.ahaparenting.com
//www.renegademothering.com

A wide range of potential sources of advice are listed because all our children are different and no book / technique / tactic will suit every family.

A link to the original thread is shown below, and I think Monkeys OP is worth a read as she sums it all up very well…….

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/a2002053-Does-anyone-else-want-to-come-and-be-a-better-parent-with-me
wecome

[Letsgoforawalk]

Welcome mummybare
I think i'd better hire a big room for our first MMA meeting
"My name is letsgoforawalk and I like telling people exactly what I think they should do and how they ought to do it."

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

tootired I absolutely micro manage those situations too. I don't actually see how else to do it. With tidying I have currently opted out and am doing it myself but I will get back to having their involvement but without specific directions nothing gets done. I don't care if it is all loaded into a digger first though- my boys love doing that!
For example this morning I took my 3 to a music group. It's birth to 5 and my DD at 4.5 is literally the oldest child there. She tried to snatch a musical instrument from a 3 year old while there, she (the other girl) had gone back to sit on my mum's lap. I chucked the dts off my knee and leapt over to her and took my DD put of the circle. I told her we can't snatch. It will only show the other girl snatching is how it works. My DD claimed she had it first. I said regardless, the other girl had it now. I thought she would have a turn before the end if the session. She was shouting and screaming about how she wanted it now and was going to snatch it back. In this group there are these 3 girls inc my DD as elder ones, all the others are much younger toddlers. I could feel disapproval coming my way and was so embarrassed at the insistence she had to have this instrument NOW. In the end she came and sat with me but wouldn't join in. It ended with the other mum bringing the instrument over. How else would you manage that?! And the arguments with siblings are violent and end in screaming so I micromanage all those situations too. Well, I have tried the so and so has the car. You want the car. what can we do? But the answer is usually kick them.or snatch it so maybe the boys at least are a bit young. Even if dd is doing it, she'd say at rest for it now! and when the boys won't give it to her now (as of course they never will if they think it'll irritate her) it descends into violence again. Help?!

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Not at rest, she'd say 'ask for it now'

doh.

And I also feel guilty a huge amount of the time and that I'm stretched too thin and not actually meeting anyones needs.

[BertieBotts]

How brilliant TooTired I love that.

I am feeling MUCH less guilty since joining these threads. Every day is a new day. Clean slate, etc. Problem is it creates a cycle where you are grouchy because of the guilt, then guilty because you were grouchy, it goes nowhere. Just move on and say "That wasn't my best move!" and then write it off. It won't kill them, it just doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Worry about the future, not the past :)

[BertieBotts]

Re micromanaging tidying, eating etc. Are you not removing their autonomy and chance to learn from their own mistakes here? I mean if they want to eat the meat first and the vegetables last, so what? Actually that's quite smart anyway, because what they need is the protein and vegetables are more of an extra. It's better for them to eat all of the protein and less of the veg. Whereas if they have to eat it "worst first" it's more of a struggle to eat the nice parts, overriding hunger signals etc.

Do you have to eat with them or can you potter while they eat so you're not watching? What happens if they don't eat? Let them get hungry before the next meal. They need to be able to make that connection themselves, that eating at mealtimes has to last until the next mealtime. Overriding it by insisting they eat is not helping them to learn that.

Tidying - again, give them the space to find out what works by leaving them to it somewhat, or doing something different in the same room. Maybe their way is more efficient, actually? It doesn't matter, is the point. If they want to use a truck as a transporter that's brilliant, because it keeps it fun meaning they are more likely to follow through and finish. In all likelihood, the "game" gets boring and they end up dumping the stuff in manually because it's quicker - great. But they won't learn that from being told, they only learn it through experience and trial and error.

Acceptable micromanaging for tidying would be to write them a list of tasks or categories or whatever. As DS gets older I get him to write his own list and check it with me (or not, if he doesn't want to).

Your example of "X has the truck and Y wants it. What can we do?" - you need to let them give more than one response. So they say "Kick him" or "Ask for it now" you can say, hmm, OK, but we don't kick in our family. (or) hmm, OK, but X doesn't want to give it now. He's still playing with it. (or) What do you think, X? Does that solution work for you? - follow up with - So what else? - basically if the solution is unworkable, briefly explain the reason why and ask for another until you arrive at one which is acceptable to everyone including you. (By that I just mean, if they agreed that kicking was a good solution, you should step in and say no, I don't agree with that, kicking is not allowed. If they just come up with an impractical or overly complicated solution, let it go. They have to try and fail at things to find out whether they work or not.)

[BlueEyeshadow]

Bertie - yes, that's exactly what I mean with the micromanaging - I need to let them learn from experience, and that's what I'm finding so hard to do.

The other issue I'm struggling with is that neither of them has any concept of personal space. We walk home with a group of other families and both boys are constantly pulling on the other children's arms, or getting in their friends' baby sister's face, or zooming through tiny gaps between adults that aren't really there, or suddenly stopping dead in front of people to fiddle with their shoes, or randomly and almost aggressively hugging people... And then there's the constant getting off the path with associated dog poo risk, getting too far ahead, trying to climb trees and getting stuck, having a big wailing fit because someone broke their "favourite stick"...

I'm exhausted by the time we get home, and then they want snacks, drinks, to play on the Wii, use the laptop, watch TV all at once.

[and breathe]

[Letsgoforawalk]

blue that does sound exhausting! But their behaviour sounds like normal energetic little child behaviour to me. It will pass (honest!) some personal space awareness will develop (maybe ) and there will come a time when their favourite stick is not the most vital item in their possession.
dreaming hard to know what I would have done in that circumstance (the musical instrument snatch) depends I suppose on how 'bothered' the younger child was. Was it something they could have shared? Or played together?

Instead of analysing and trying to establish "who had the car first? Hmm, what shall we do?" Could you hand responsibility for sorting it out fairly totally over to them - as a team. (I bet they do understand 'fairly' very well and are more than capable of coming to a solution, given the right incentive.) of course if they do descend to fisticuffs and relentless screaming no one gets the car. It goes in Mummy's special tidy up box. And stays there.

Don't use your precious energy intervening in their competitive squabbles. I know they are very young, but I believe children can judge these situations very well and solve things in ways that might surprise you.

On a Sunday after my DH has cooked and coated every pan in dried on food and grease I get the children to do the washing up after we have stuffed the dishwasher to the brim I stay in the kitchen and help too, but only for as long as they both pitch in and wash/dry/put away too....without bickering. The minute anyone strts ranting about "she only did this that's not fair I don't want to...." I'm out of that room like shit off a shovel, and they have to do it by themselves.

The conditions attached to my helping are clearly stated every week. They can't say they were not warned!

They don't want to be left with the grease mountain by themselves and it is an incentive for DD3 to keep her moany little grumbles to herself. (Yes, I can say it here, she is troublemaker number 1) so they both make an effort to button it and get on with the job.

I suppose handing responsibility for sorting it out is a kinder version of "thrash 'em all"

[Letsgoforawalk]

Oh, tidying
So long as you are not obsessive about everything going in the right box, why not try this....
Google 'benny hill theme music' it's on YouTube , give them each an empty box and set them a challenge of clearing the floor before the music stops.

Stand back and enjoy the mayhem....

[BlueEyeshadow]

Thanks letsgo. Again, I don't know how much energy to use up on trying to manage all that behaviour. I feel like I spend the whole way home nagging and screeching stuff like "gently! " "not in his face! " "keep that stick away from eyes!" "get down! " "don't go too far!" "on the path please! "

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Meals I don't care. I'm happy to provide yoghurt with the main, crackers, don't care. Tidying again I don't care how they do it. Tonight the dts tidied to Madagascar version of "move it move it" and did well.

I should let them do that more. Sort their own debates. I do try. The music group was hard as both girls wanted this instrument and it's a structured session so whole.group would be waiting on the date and lots of 1 year old who as we know don't do waiting. I doubt much different could have happened there but at home I think I can provide more helpful solutions. I do step in and nd probably over do the offer. "I wont let you snatch it so you could play X with mummy or we can look for Y car instead?" Mine are all fiercely possessive over their things. Flipping nightmare for sharing with dt2 as the worst offender for never agreeing to hand over.

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Blue apart from the stick in face thing (I also have a stick lover) the personal space thing runs very true. I have one rule for mine which is to stay in sight and is frequently broken and have gone very laissez faire with walking anywhere. This may backfire big style when one gets run over but dog poo though a pain is low on my list and running and grabbing I mostly ignore unless the other child is bothered

[AnotherMonkey]

blue I feel your pain! DD almost ran out in front of a car the other day. I actually screamed, I wasn't expecting her to stop. We were only walking from the front door to the car on the (usually extremely quiet) street and she was a few feet in front of me but then, completely unexpectedly, just ran at the road.

She did stop, thank god, but I was shaking for a good while after.

I too highly recommend letting them sort it out themselves whenever possible. This worked from DD being surprisingly small.

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Thank goodness she stopped another . Both my boys have done that once on their balance bikes. Freakily unexpected and never done it again so I hope it's similar.

dd having issues at preschool and I'm really sad about it. She loves 'friends' and company but just doesn't get the rules. Yesterday the teacher reported that DD was rough at preschool. She is, I know, not great with other children sometimes- or at least not without someone to help her manage situations. I know this.
Today for pickup the boys and I were early and I saw her sat by herself outside on the games area where they were all out with the staff (no free flow so it's an all in or all out situation).

Went in to get her 10 min later and the teacher reported she hurt her friend by grabbing his face (this is something I know she does when she wants to be listened to- not that I'm saying it's ok). The children wouldn't play with her outside as she just gets closer and closer when she's asking them to do something and then grabs their faces which they hate and walk away from. Then she gets angry with them. So again they won't play with her. When I collected her, she pushed another girl over on the mat- in front of her grandma of course- for no reason (I know it'll be because she was feeling angry or frustrated but this girl would see it as no reason as it's totally unacceptable anyway). I had been concerned about her socialising with the other children and it's safe to say she has difficulties with social skills and interactions. She is similarly rough and bossy with her brothers. The preschool teacher has specifically asked us to try and work on her bossiness.

Even though I think she probably just needs some more help on interactions with other children I can't help feeling really upset that I'm maybe not just paranoid about how she is at home with her brothers. I'm also not best pleased with how preschool handled it. They just said about the other incidents but made her say sorry to the other girl she pushed at the time while I was there. No asking why, no saying it's ok to feel frustrated but not to push. Just didn't address the issue I don't think (as surely being excluded 15 min previously was part of it?!) I'm also now worried that they may see her as a rough/boisterous child and treat her negatively and she'll pick up on this and it'll affect her self image. I'm going to try and get some more information. We specifically asked at the short introduction session she goes to ar our first choice school this afternoon- they said she's fine there (which I presume means with more supervision as I do know she is bossy/can be rough). If i think social interaction is actually badly managed and she's not being viewed in a positive light, I'd maybe just stop sending her. Rather that than her think she can't make friends and have a poor self image.

How ridiculous am I being?! Any ideas for helping her with friendships?

[Letsgoforawalk]

Not ridiculouslous at all dreaming any preschool worth its salt should be able to manage behaviour like that without negatively labelling a child and asking their mother to sort out a character trait.
No time this am nut wanted to let you know that thought.
(())

[AnotherMonkey]

Hi everyone.

No news is good news here, I'm enjoying my little ones at the moment and the dramas are shorter and more manageable.

Someone is going to observe DS at school in a couple of weeks and I'm relieved that I can stop stressing and googling for a while and just wait to see what the outcome of that is.

I agree with letsgo, dreaming - that's not an ideal way for the nursery to handle it. And tbh your daughter sounds great; she'll learn to smooth out that behaviour with gentle encouragement. Which book was I reading which talks about redefining negative labels? Bossy = confident, achieving, focused.

[BlueEyeshadow]

That sounds like the Spirited Child book, Monkey.

Not much change here, but I'm trying to chill out a bit...

[TooTiredToThinkOfAUsername]

Oh dreaming that sounds heartbreaking and I agree the preschool don't seem to have handled it well at all. I wouldn't want to keep sending my DD to get such a negative experience. Can she go somewhere else? Or can you talk to the preschool and discuss your concerns? Maybe there's something they can do?

Another - glad to hear things going well. Hope the observation of DS is helpful.

Nothing thrilling to report here apart from endless feeding and inadequate sleeping :/

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

This week I will try and speak to the teacher. I would take her out otherwise. It's making me wonder if it's my fault. She only goes 2 mornings, 6 hours per week. She often misses it (like last week when we were away). I've even wondered if I should send her more- briefly anyway, I'm not confident enough in their discipline methods and staff ratios to really think that. Is doing just one 1hr 40min session a week going to be okay before she starts school though?!

Today I have been a hideously ratty and snappy mum. My dh took over bedtime as I was just being way too irritable and snappy. sigh Definitely tiredness related so I best stop sitting on my bottom.and get to bed.

Glad things are going well anothermonkey . I hope his assessment at school is useful and yes, very nice for it to be put of your hands for a while.

[ClairesTravellingCircus]

Echo shat the others have said about preschool. You would expect them to be able to handle it better.

Tiredeness is not a parents' best fridnd! I have been trying to make an effort and have been less shouty/snappy. Have still shouted, but more at things that were dangerous/hitting/pushing etc.
Makes me feel a bit better! But I'm stressed and overworked and dteading the week ahead! Hope it's a good one for everyone

[BertieBotts]

Have a google of social stories to see if you can help her with social situations. They are used with autism, I'm not saying she has autism but they can be very useful in a situation where a child doesn't know what the appropriate response should be.

Don't worry about school. It does depend on area but apparently lots of DC start school without having been to nursery. Plus I think you can go a bit far - I remember my stepmother telling me I really must get my DC in nursery (at a year old!) to "get him used to it" before preschool, which only exists to... get them used to the idea of being at school

Any decent Reception class will have various settling in options, don't worry.

[HazyShadeOfWinter]

Just popping in quickly as I'm still lurking and finding even the act of lurking here helpful - constant reminder of both the things I want to improve and the fact I'm not the only one/not a total failure at this!

Dreaming it sounds really hard with your DD, I often feel the same with my DS who is also confident/assertive/a strong leader/bossy and I worry about him interacting with his friends at nursery. He can also be shy in new situations and if he's nervous he will run round on his own talking/shouting his own nonsense words rather than join in a group game. So he's definitely in need of social support sometimes and I would feel awful if I thought his nursery teachers weren't helping him and teaching him how to interact in a thoughtful way.

If I'm understanding it right, your DD goes to preschool and also to a separate session at a different school - the one you'd like her to go to? If it were me and the talk didn't go well with preschool I would be tempted to take her out. She'll still be getting time at the school she will hopefully go to, and maybe you could use the preschool times to take her to some other groups where you can work on social things with her one to one? I recently started doing this with DS - taking him to new groups where I can help him learn about interacting with new people and joining in a group activity. I realise that means less time 'off' for you, though, so just a thought.

[ChangeYouFucker]

Hi, I popped on a week ago. Just wanted to add to dreaming - looking back at preschool for my DD I wish I had been a bit more assertive in asking them how they were planning to respond to the difficulties my DD had (v different from your LO, my DD did not speak to another child for over 9 months, it took her 6 months to speak to an adult). The preschool just told me to arrange play dates. I look back and realise they did nothing to actually help her at preschool and put the emphasis on me. So I think it's reasonable to, in a very polite way, enquire what their plan of action is so that you can support it.

So question to you wise ones. When you've not handled a situation very well how do you make the situation better? When I get upset with them over a big thing like this it's like a spiral downwards, they are upset and their behaviour worsens, I get more anxious and angry and my reactions to their behaviour worsens. In the end I had to go to my room and count to 90. I then gathered them both on my lap and sang to them for 10 minutes.

How do you make it up when you know you've been crap? Without giving in to the behaviour?

[BertieBotts]

I suppose it depends what the behaviour is. In most cases once the moment has passed it's a bit late to worry about it. So just move on, get them to help you rectify if appropriate, try to do better next time.

[Letsgoforawalk]

You can also think about modelling the behaviour you want from them if they have "lost it". An apology can often be useful followed by moving on and making things better.

Your singing on the lap will have had exactly this effect and sounds like a good move under the circumstances.

I have been surprised by the positive response I've had from a brief and largely blame free apology. It can really take the heat out of a situation.
Eg:
Me "I am sorry I shouted so loudly, I was angry. I'm not angry now, however I can't have this mess all over the floor. shall we tidy it ?"
They can (if they have calmed down) then follow your cue and apologise too.

Hope everyone is ok, here it looks like "the dog" is happening sooner rather than later, having got my DH on board with the idea he has just gone out and picked one from our local rescue centre and I'm having to rein him in like an enthusiastic Labrador
Quite excited too! Meeting her on Thursday and having a chat with the rescue centre about her.

[drspouse]

Couple of stellar parenting days here (not). Yesterday I walked ahead of DS who was going veeery slowly and stopping on the way home from stay and play. I don't go back for him but obviously he can see me ahead. The postman thought I'd abandoned him and once he'd got attention from him, and from the staff (!!) for not walking, clearly he wasn't going to walk anywhere. So he just stood on the pavement while the postman went in to get the staff.
And then this morning his trousers were STUCK and TOO BIG (i.e. too small) and he had a tantrum on the need to fling them off because he doesn't think he should have to pull them up himself. So I pulled his trouser leg to get it off and start again but I pulled too hard and he came off onto the floor and banged his head hard. I did say how sorry I was and we had a cuddle. But I'm not feeling massively confident as a parent today!
The dressing thing is moving forwards despite daily tantrums. But walking is (ha) not really going anywhere. I spend the whole time while we're out saying "good walking, well done keeping up" etc and TRY not to say "hurry up" too much! Not really sure what else to do! He CAN stand on the buggy board but it requires active cooperation which can be in short supply.