Come and be a Better Parent with us in the Virtual Village

[Letsgoforawalk]

This was originally started by Another Monkey, the virtual village refers to the phrase that 'It takes a village to raise a child'.

You are welcome to vent, to ask for advice or to give us the benefit of your experience. The only thing we all seem to have in common is that we are all either ‘in there’ or have ‘been there’.

Perfection is not the goal, we are more about, as monkey brilliantly put it “choosing one thing to be less crap at at a time”.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child
How to be a Better Parent: No Matter How Badly Your Children Behave or How Busy You Are

Potentially useful websites (useful in quite different ways…..)
//www.theorangerhino.com
//www.ahaparenting.com
//www.renegademothering.com

A wide range of potential sources of advice are listed because all our children are different and no book / technique / tactic will suit every family.

A link to the original thread is shown below, and I think Monkeys OP is worth a read as she sums it all up very well…….

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/a2002053-Does-anyone-else-want-to-come-and-be-a-better-parent-with-me
wecome

[TooTiredToThinkOfAUsername]

Hope everyone has a good weekend - no advice to offer anyone but maybe one day I'll have some wisdom to share :) so just saying hi during the lonnnnnng evening feed :)

[AnotherMonkey]

Another one here too tired to be any use at all but just dropping in to catch up and say hi.

Hi

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Genius advice bertie I had no idea I was doing that. Dammit. It's so hard to see where you're going wrong yourself (I find, anyway)

[melisma]

Just wanted to say I am finding all of these posts so helpful. Am faithfully lurking but too cross eyed with sleep deprivation to contribute much-sorry I have a willful, funny, incredibly affectionate, incredibly stubborn DS who's just turned 3, and lovely DD who is 9 months (yes, the dreaded sleep regression has definitely landed). Great advice Bertie about giving time for children to respond, I'll definitely give that a try. I was also nodding along with the validating feelings but then adding "BUT" thing, so will try to pick myself up on that one. Thanks again.

[BertieBotts]

The thing is it's so hard not to do!! I did a bit of validating today as DS was forcibly removed from a Skype call with my mum where I was trying to discuss something important and he wanted to eat cucumber and jump up and down in front of the camera. He didn't calm down in time to say goodbye and was really upset about it so I cuddled him and did some validating "You wanted to say goodbye. You didn't have time to say everything that you wanted to say." he was whining a lot in response and I was SO tempted to say "But you didn't let me talk, if you'd have sat still for a minute then you could have had another turn" or "But you were being too silly!" I held off, though, and then DH chimed in from the other side of the room "Well you should have behaved better then!" Ha! I guess he couldn't resist the temptation. In fact the validation did help and he let go of the upset but then continued to do silly type playing, which I joined in with a bit but then he ignored clear boundaries at the end of it so ended up in his room again!

That's a bit of an issue for us, always has been. I like being silly and messing around with him (I was being a "horse" today) but he doesn't know when to stop and it doesn't seem to matter if we try to ramp it down slowly, stop suddenly, give a clear signal or distract him with something else, he always wants to carry on the silliness, basically, until he falls off something and hurts himself. Any ideas for that anyone?

[TooTiredToThinkOfAUsername]

I'm sure I read something about the silliness - and I think so much of it was about repetition. You just have to keep telling them / guiding them that This is Enough and Stop when you're Asked. Eventually it'll start to make sense to them. Which is all very well but usually I want a solution NOW!

I know I'm guilty of generating silliness and sometimes I can see I've really wound DS up into hysterical hilarious frenzy. Then I try to calm him down with a big cuddle and being quiet and getting a book out. But he's not quite 2 and that might not help with your DS as he's a bit older.

[ClairesTravellingCircus]

We have issues with silliness too, often when they're overtired. I'm afraid I've fallen back on the old method of threats "if you want to read a book come and put your pjs on NOW". It's the only thing that seems to work short term. I do not like as I've seen dd1&2 use it against each other, and it's horrible. But I haven't found an alternative method that works just as quickly when you are in a hurry. (And we always seem
To be ).
I've had my first uninterrupted night's sleep in what feels like years (more like a few months), and it's Sunday ??. Let's see if I can be more patient today [hopeful]

[ClairesTravellingCircus]

Oh and I was going to ask for advice about dd3's clinginess. She will not let anyone dress her/take her to the toilet etc but me. To the extreme yesterday I got home with her having a tantrum as she wouldn't go to the toilet without me (i was out working). She clearly needed a wee but was refusing. She does this ALL the time, f we're all getting ready and I ask dh or the older dcs to help getting dts ready, she won't let anyone else do it. The screams of "No, mummy do it!" Are one of the most annoying things ever! They give me the rage and I admit I do not handle it well, If I can't accomodate her immediately (normally I'm busy doing something else), I refuse yo give in. Probably wronglh, but it's really frustrating to have 3 people standing around waiting because she won't allow anyone else waiting while I'm trying to get dressed myself!! The same when she wakes in the night, if dh goes she refuses to be picked up and screams for me. Now her brither is starting to do the same and it's getting ridiculous.

Any advice greatly appreciated!
Hope you're all having a nuce weekend!

[BertieBotts]

Ok, how did everyone do on the Listening challenge?

It's Sunday so I have a new challenge for you, the second one from How To Talk.

The challenge is "Not giving advice". This one is quite age specific. Read the premise then I'll come back and explain the differences. Basically, the idea is when you feel yourself about to accuse, admonish, blame or offer unsolicited advice to your child, STOP! Wait and see what they say or do for themselves.

With a very young child (0-2 years) this might take the form of helping them or doing something for them when they may be capable of doing it themselves. Sit on your hands a bit, let them have a go. Obviously intervene for safety issues, but if they are just getting frustrated and crying, don't immediately rush in and fix it. See if they can work it out for themselves. A good phrase to use is "Never mind. Try again!" It's really difficult to watch them getting frustrated and not help them, or not intervene, or not show them the more logical/practical way of doing something, but their faces when they DO do it for themselves are absolutely totally worth it. Magic :)

For toddlers, (18m-4 years) you've got a bit of both. Don't rush in to help or take over something when they want to do it themselves. Try to give them time to do it. Don't critique their technique or tell them how to do it better unless they actually ask.

Equally, when something goes wrong just listen to what they tell you about it, don't jump in with a solution. Do the 10 second listening pause thing. (Letsgo's tip, not mine :))

For older children (3+ years) you probably find you do a bit of this: "You shouldn't have..." "Next time, don't..." "That's why we...." and, yes, still, jumping in to give advice or explain how to do something better when it's not needed. Train yourself to use the phrase "Do you need any help?" rather than launching in and then listen to the answer!! Of course if they do ask for help, then advise away, but let them try first. Another tip, the first time they ask for help is to turn it back on them, ask them "What do you think you could try next?"

For much older children, the real "blaming" language starts to subconsciously creep in. "You always...!" "You're so...." "Did you....?" Again, when you feel the urge to say these things just make a listening noise (Mmm, Oh, Really?, Wow, etc). Don't forget the 10 second pause even for an older child.

I think this fits in nicely with the "But..." discussion we had a couple of days ago too :)

I am not doing levels this time. Too wordy already.

[Letsgoforawalk]

This is one for me!
I'm terrible at letting people find their own solutions, have real tendency to micro-manage and think my way is The Only Way when it so patently isn't.....
Thanks Bertie

CTC how very frustrating! No suggestions apart from rather brisk "mummy is busy, it's me or no-one which do you choose?" With lots of descriptive praise for any behaviour that is not yelling for you. Appeal to her grown up-ness perhaps and heap praise for actions that take her towards independence.
or it could be because she is uncomfortable being not a baby any more, and feeling she needs more of your attention (can't remember ages but is she youngest?). What can help with clinginess, counter-intuitively, is to go towards it rather than pulling away. Spend more time with her, not necessarily doing the 'helping with dressing' etc activities, just more time being with her, listening, recognising feelings etc.

I realise this may be a completely ridiculously impossible 'solution' what with time not being infinitely expandable and all....

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

CTC one of my twins is just like that. Only I can dress him, change his nappy, brush his teeth etc. Incredibly frustrating and I've not found anything that works yet.

bertie I was literally cringing reading your challenge. It'll be very hard for me as I think I have been using all the wrong language/ blaming/shaming without realising. How can I have so little insight?!?! I honestly didn't think I was. Bollocks. I clearly need a reread of HTT stat.

Might not be around this week as we are meant to be going away tomorrow. except dt2 has just been sick 3 times in 90 minutes He's not my refluxer...

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Listening one was okay. I think mine just don't listen or forget mid sentence as they don't say anything even after 10 seconds?!

I am actually horrified at how shit my communication must be btw

[ClairesTravellingCircus]

Ah Letsgo, wise as always!
It's certainly a way of securing my attention. They are at nursery til 4pm every day, and then there's 4 of them to share me, and chores for me and sometimes still work to do. And I am guilty of often being distracted by a million thoughts (I have made an effort to listen properly though, following bertie's excercise ).
Suggestion no 1, tried and failed (she's very determined), just recently she missed out on going out with my sister because of this I was in the bathroom my sister couldn't be late in picking up my dn so dd3 ended up not going) need to go for option 2. Must try harder.

Oh she is the you gest together with ds, her twin brother. They've just turned 3.

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

I mostly mean with the 4 year old btw, "you are too rough with your brothers, you're 4" etc.

[BertieBotts]

I don't know. I think there is a difference between stating a limit (which might well be "That is too rough/You are being too rough") and making an actual value judgement on a child themselves "You're just a bully!" "You're always pushing your brother around!" etc.

Certainly, sometimes you have to interrupt an action and then you SHOULD tell them why.

This is from chapter 1 of how to talk, so if you want to reread, it's not very far in. Should take about 10 minutes. Sneak it into the toilet :)

But no, really - communication at its base meaning is about transferring information and ideas from yourself to somebody else. Shouting "Oh my god, you're so bloody stupid, how could you?!" probably gets across the very basic message "Mum didn't like that" just as much, if not more effectively than a softly softly chat, so it's not about feeling bad or worrying that every interaction is not perfect. Nope - it won't be!

If you have the book, look at the cartoon (page 12-13 on my version, or the second cartoon in the first chapter) because I perhaps didn't explain too well, but it's for a specific situation when your child is trying to tell you something (or do something, for the younger ones). It doesn't mean that you should never give advice or never admonish - sometimes you do need to get a message across and that is the clearest way to do so.

I got on OK with the listening challenge, but I found I'm not remembering a lot of what DS tells me?? My issue I think, perhaps ADD related.

Am a bit distracted this week because we have just heard bad news about a friend's child who is quite ill, so a bit in shock/trying to co-ordinate help for the family/stuff so sorry I haven't really replied much to individuals.

[Letsgoforawalk]

bertie that sounds sad about your friends family.

claires so not wise, not with my own....had to apologise to my 14 yr old tonight, said horrid things and totally did not recognise the fact that she was:
a. Sad,
b. Hungry
c. Not in a fit state to do her homework until a and b had been addressed d.Trying to tell me a, b and c in her own inimitable way (hiding in a cupboard til we all started to worry she had left the house and run away) Aaaaarrrrrgggghhh.

[BlueEyeshadow]

letsgo that sounds just like my DS1.

Am completely at my wit's end this morning. They wake up bickering, waking me and DH in the process. By the time I've got out of bed 3 times in 10 minutes to calm things down, I've lost all of the little patience Ihave in the first place, which isn't much. Apparently they were hungry, but they had breakfast and are still squabbling. I just don't know what to do. It then puts things all out of kilter for the rest of the morning.

[TooTiredToThinkOfAUsername]

Argh! Blue that sounds so frustrating. Hope your day got better.

Wrote a big long reply a couple of days ago but it appears to have vanished. In summary - thanks for challenges BertieBotts - they certainly flag up my lack of being fully present with DCs. Have ordered HTT...

Now for another day :) hopefully I won't spend too much of it thinking I'm really not enjoying this ho hum

[AnotherMonkey]

Hello all x

Struggling a bit here at the moment, just a bit drained really as there is so much is going on, I need a holiday! Sorry I'm not being much help on here just now.

Mornings are the killer for me, too!

[AnotherMonkey]

Hooray - back with a bit of time to reply properly.

So, I thought I was pretty good at the listening and I am, mostly, alright... but the challenge did make me realise I'm not quite as good as I thought I was!

This week's challenge is a tough one for me. Like letsgo , I do have a tendency to micro-manage, and while some of that is for good reason, I definitely give too many instructions/advice. Problem is, I keep forgetting until I come back to this thread. Must try harder!

On this subject, does anyone else find it easier when their DH isn't around? My DH is lovely, and he does his share. But somehow, when it's just me and the kids, things are generally calmer, tidier and I seem to have more time. Why is that?!

tootired I've battled (and still do, sometimes) with those 'I'm really not enjoying this' thoughts. I'm trying really hard to replace them with more realistic and immediate thoughts ('this screaming is bloody annoying but everything will calm down in a minute and we can put peppa pig on, have a cuddle and a coffee') and also to be really conscious of identifying the positive moments. Post your positives on here if it helps.

[ClairesTravellingCircus]

Really struggling tonight. I've shouted at the twins really badly tonight, I'm so ashamed of myself... I have had lots of work recently, too much, and I've been making silly mistakes, but quite a few. I just feel like a complete idiot, so tonight Iget an email about YET another oversight of mine, and it gets me down. So I sit at thepc to rey and get lost in my thoughts. Didn't realise the dts were in the bathroom until I called themfor bedtime: they had been using the cat litter tray as a sadpit . It was EVERYWHERE. I totally lost it! Feel so bad about it now. They got really scared. I did apologise later, but feeling horrible tonight. Dh is away too. So can't offload on him either.

[AnotherMonkey]

((((Claire's))))) I really sympathise. I am sick of having no brain capacity at the moment. And discovering twins in the car litter would send me over the edge too. your way x

[ClairesTravellingCircus]

I have to admit this weeks challenge is not hard for me, with4 kids I am not in a position to hover too much. I do have the opposite problem rather: I do not engage with them enough. Because once work is done and the essentials have been taken care of, there is not enough of me lfet to share anymore. In my case dh helps enormously, his help gives that bit of mental space that makes me relax and be more patient, and playful too. Shame he's around so little.

[ClairesTravellingCircus]

Thanks, Anothermonkey I don't even have in the house or .

I need sleep and a holiday. But more than anything uninterrupted sleep!

[Letsgoforawalk]

Trying to deal with work related emails whilst single handedly managing cat litter encrusted twins.
claire's
Take whichever seems most appropriate.