Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

Right just been reading The Orange Rhino and I'm going to start by using its advice and suggestions to see if I can go 30 days without yelling. Did I yell today? Yes. When DS failed to cooperate. Which is stupid of me, he is a toddler and it's his job not to cooperate! So day 1 tomorrow...

bexs with your enthusiasm and sense of humour I am sure things will go well. The insight into toddler behaviour is brilliant. 'it is his job not to cooperate.' But of course and it is our job to obtain stealth cooperation if need be.

I am loving all the honesty on this thread. Its so comforting knowing there are other people who feel the same, not just in a "oh isn't mothering hard" kind of way but in a "actually isn't this really shit sometimes" kind of way.

Does anyone feel they are a walking stereotype sometimes? I think my husband tends to dismiss my feelings sometimes when i say "i need some time to myself" or "its difficult being constantly attached to a baby" because everyone seems to say it. I find it hard to communicate how close i am to just shutting myself in a room & leaving the kids to their own devices sometimes.

I've just realised how many times i said 'sometimes' in that thread!

jelly does he need to 'walk in your shoes' a bit? I don't recall if you are bf. can he take them for a day? and also, so long as they are all safe, it is ok to shut yourself in a different room and get a little head space when you need it.

Haha no worries. I don't know, I am pretty brutally honest on MN after my eyes were opened a year or two ago by a thread started by a (childless) regular on the feminism section asking well, how bad can it be? Everyone poured in with their worst times, their lowest times, it was hugely cathartic (the poor poster is probably crossing her legs for life now!) and since I saw how helpful it is I just am more honest now in a way I can't really be on facebook or in person. Then I found Renegade Mothering too which also talks about things in a similarly frank way. It's good. We need to be more open about it IMO. I was thinking about running a sort of unofficial "class" locally on How To Talk as a few people in a group I am on keep passing it around furtively. An idea I had for the first session was to get everyone to write, anonymously, on bits of paper what percentage of motherhood they enjoy. Hopefully they'd be honest, because the killer is thinking that YOU are alone, a freak, wrong, unnatural, some awful fraud mother. No, I think it's just hard and we should be honest about that. (And hopefully I repeat the exercise at the end and the average goes up )

bertie that sounds like a proper research project.

Letsgo, he is brilliant & lovely and does give me a break if I ask, i just dont feel like he really 'gets' it. Just knowing he really does understand how I feel would make me feel better I think.

I definitely think BF makes it harder too. My eldest was bottle fed and being able to leave him if i needed to really made a difference. My 3mo is so demanding in the day, he literally feeds every 30mins or so except when he's asleep which is 2hrs max and only if he's in the sling or on me. I am lucky that he sleeps well at night though or I may have given him away by now!

That is a great idea Bertie, I would attend your meeting if you are local

Oh no MoreSnow! You haven't ruined them at all, don't think that. And they're only bloody words. Really really not worth being upset over. DS used to half speak in sign language at the age of two and I promise you he doesn't remember a single one.

I posted this a few posts ago, it's about when you wish you'd done better and not dwelling on it. carried-family.blogspot.de/2009/03/on-letting-go-of-perfection.html

Right emergency calming techniques... Do you have the Buttons book, I'm sure there are some in there.

Tickling a child who you really have the urge to slap/scream/shove can diffuse that situation immediately. It stops them answering back too ;)

Do you have a playpen that the 2yo can't get out of? I would seriously consider getting one as an emergency short term measure so you can safely contain them and then go and scream into a pillow/lock yourself in the bathroom for 5 minutes and count to 100.

Rescue Remedy, if it's safe to take with your meds. Put a few drops in water and sip it throughout the day, or put a couple of drops on your tongue when you're getting to boiling point.

When you feel yourself about to shout, can you sing instead?

Have you tried the mantra "This is not an emergency." Sorry there is more of that one but I can't remember it.

I know a lot of the time we're talking gentle parenting/not punitive methods etc but short term maybe that's a bit much to expect? What about (for now) going with a very formulaic and precise method like 123 Magic. When you get the thyroid stuff and the meds sorted and everything better under control, then you can move back into gentle parenting. In the meantime 123 magic is positive, easy to remember and keeps everyone calm.

And check Orange Rhino. I bet they have emergency control methods on there too.

I hope you're okay xx

I bet you're not doing a terrible job at all!! We all seem to judge our parenting far more harshly than we should. Your boys are being looked after and cared for. We all end up swearing anyway! We don't remember stuff from when we were 2 and under. Really don't panic. Once you've got the meds sorted and the various medical issues in line then you will be in a position to be positive again!

Totally agree with BertieBotts - I've been using "This is NOT an emergency" a lot and have just started with the Orange Rhino (day 1 today).

Is there anyone who could help out at all? Even if just for an hour here or there? Just having a break really helps me.

Being able to put baby / toddler down somewhere safe and walking away is really good advice. Letting them cry for a bit is not a problem. Give yourself a chance to calm down (The Orange Rhino has lots of suggestions to help there). But be careful where you put them. I was putting DS in cot. He started jumping in it as if it were a trampoline. Now it is broken. And supported on baked bean tins. (Shops own brand in case you're wondering so it does now look really very classy).

Good luck but most of all be kind to yourself

Would also add on swearing - DS watches a lot of youtube videos and comes across swearing on those, it's almost impossible to filter out, although we do make him turn them off when we hear it. He doesn't repeat them and is quite clear on what are "bad words". At two he doesn't have an understanding and if you get out of the habit of using them, he'll just forget them anyway. And I've heard in Ireland adults swear around children all the time but children know they aren't allowed to repeat "bold words" as they are called.

(((((MoreSnow))))) you have so much going on.

Can you identify particular behaviours which really raise your stress levels?

And are you getting time to rest and be 'you'?

Oh and apparently at 2 I used to sit with my back against the wall of our dining room, listening to our neighbours scream and swear blue murder at each other.

I guess I must have been listening as I'm told I used to repeat the bold words pretty freely until we moved ( ) but all I can remember is liking to sit and drift around in my own thoughts in that spot. I definitely can't remember the swearing.

I'm obviously not encouraging swearing in 2 yr olds but please don't think you can't get past this x

Hello.
Sorry, by the time I've caught up and read the thread I don't have time to post. The 'minimal screen time' helps my parenting but I can't keep up on here too much pissing about on fb

moresnow I second (third?) what the others have been saying. It's okay to walk away when you're too cross to respond in any other way than shouting. I find small children leant swear words faster than any other word possible. They'll forget them just as fast. I am also trying to get with the "it's not an emergency " "this isn't the end of the world" kind of mentality.

My issue at the minute is I'm feeling so cross with myself for continuing to let the low level irritability and general sense of how annoying they can be show through too often. I really don't want them to think I think they're a nuisance. We have lots of good times too. So why is it carrying on?! I'm tired at the minute as DD is having nightmares about a wolf in her bedroom. I was with her 2:45- 4:20am this morning as she was scared and then DT1 woke and I misread the clock and got him up at 5:30. Rats! my dh is off so I got to sleep for another 2 hours and then I took them out for the morning while he slept but this is a pain and adding to the trials of the day. Normally DD wakes DT1 up too.
I have also been losing it and shouting at them when I feel out of control/like a bad mum (figure that one out? !) so times like bedtime when I'm trying to tidy up a bit as the house looks like a bomb has hit it, hard, and dh hates coming home to it like that, and the dc are overtired and I feel like it is getting later and later and we're still not in the bath and then the rough play gets out of hand and I yell and them all. Marvellous. I will repeat the "not an emergency " mantra to myself if needed tonight. 2 calm bedtimes have just been achieved though.

Nice cake letsgo Large slice for me please. And the situation you said with the hungry DD? That's exactly the kind of thing I do and realise too late I've reacted ridiculously and there was a good reason for the behaviour anyway.... I still find your posts so encouraging and your dds seem to be able to sort some situations out themselves that my sister and I never managed to do; I really hope I can get there with mine too.

I could have written your post myself dreaming! Getting annoyed because I've got annoyed happens all too often here! That then puts me in a mood leaving me more likely to shout again so it really is a bit of a vicious circle. I like the tickling instead of shouting idea, will give that one a go.

Managed today with only 1 episode of shouting, again when DS1 wouldn't walk up the stairs. I need to figure out how to not get so annoyed by that one.

snow no real advice from me except be kind to yourself, your definitely not the only one x

Another post from me, sorry.
Its 7:30am and I've already shouted at the 2yo because he wouldn't come here when i asked. Its all very well this no shouting thing but how the hell do i get him to do anything? I so wanted to be one of those families where if mum shouted it was a big deal but i just don't seem able to get him to do even simple things without raising my voice

We have a wall planner in our kitchen where i tick of the days & doing it just now I've realised i am counting down the days until my husband is here to help me cos i am simply not enjoying being a parent at the moment. What a depressing revelation that is

Jelly I don't think it's surprising if you're not enjoying it whilst your DH is away. I often don't enjoy it when mine is still here to help! Without the help you have no break. It's you 200% and I find if I can't hand over for even just 5 mins I start to wear very thin...

And as for toddlers oh my word!!! Contrary! Difficult! Bloody minded! They really will cut off their own nose to go against anything they're asked to do! I have no suggestions here, sorry but just to say I was a full time teacher with apparently very good behaviour management before being a mum. So I, foolishly, thought I'd have this mum lark nailed. What an idiot!!!!! It is much easier to organise an unruly hormonal bunch of year 9s or year 11s than it is to organise one toddler!

Good luck and please don't be hard on yourself

jelly me too, I honestly find mornings the toughest time of day, when the whining and difficult behaviour begin before I've even woken up. This morning I was patient, patient, patient... patient ... Boom. I also feel at these times like I just don't enjoy this and the guilt and sadness that thought brings is huge, even if it's only fleeting.

Bexster, could not agree more!

To all of you (moresnow, jelly,bex,monkey, dreaming) finding it tough with the toddlers, I've spent some time today trying to think of any magic solutions that I had in those faraway days. Things that I remember helped:

Regular food (for me!)
Wearing proper clothes not nightwear. (me again)
Coffee to help with the sleepiness
Getting out of the house
Toddler groups where other mums ( and dads) were, and laughs could be shared
Big open spaces where small child could potter about without dominating the area if you know what I mean. (A toddler seems huge and noisy in a room, less so in a field)
Just getting out of the house (however challenging..worth repeating)

Good luck all of you
(((())))

The best things for me (and if only I could actually do them all all the time!) for toddlers in the morning are:

• clear instructions getting down on their level.

For me in reality this means saying after this programme it'd breakfast. I go and start getting it ready. I call children. None of my 3 appear. I feel like shouting through. This doesn't work. If I go through and carry, jolly along etc, get down onto their level, TV off they will come . Any other forms of calling turns into yelling at them. It requires extreme patience... Also the 3 second pause before yelling (this is the hardest one for me, I'm so hotheaded) . Lowering all expectations. I know know they won't get dressed when asked, come for breakfast when asked etc so I do need to be more persuasive all the time. All. The. Time (I do the patient, patient, patient....boom! just like that too monkey) This is very wearing in itself

I dread being alone overnight. It's rare here Thank goodness .

I have had 3 calm days and bedtimes except one episode of shouting today when the basic cause was one of your ones letsgo hungry mother. Doh .

Sorry,got to race off

Yes DS is still contrary. "DS don't hide in that corner, there's mould on the wall." Immediate response "No there isn't!" Argh!! (I don't actually live in a hovel, it is literally one corner!)

I do remember the days when shouting was the only thing which got responses. That does get better. I don't know when but I don't find myself shouting very often now unless one of three things:

1. We are late for something.
2. DS is really over excited and has turned into a human windmill spewing arm flailing and random noises.
3. He won't get out of my bed and I haven't woken up yet.

We finally hit on a solution for the shower... DH does a slow count down from 10 only when he thinks DS is wasting time, stops the countdown if he starts doing something useful towards it. Quite often DS decides he conveniently needs a poo, but we don't mind that because it's only cutting into his own TV/reading time before bed.

bertie that's exactly what my DD would (and does) say!

First minor victory of the day; managed by some.miracle when I wasn't convinced it'd work, to show no sign of irritation when DT1 told me it was morning at 5:20am but did tell him his light wasn't on (nightlight on timer switch for 6am ) so he'd just woken up in the middle of the night, tucked him in very calmly without rushing or being even mildly hurried,stroked his head a bit... and silence til 6:30!!!!! Latest in weeks! Probably a never to be repeated fluke but - and as if I needed it- another reminder of how important it is I nail this gentle attitude and no shouting/barely concealed irritation and low level snappiness.

I couldn't get back to sleep in time after the 5:20 faff so the tiredness never helps that goal. Wish me luck!

Agree with what dreaming says about lowering expectations. I realised yesterday, if i don't ask DS to do things i can't shout at him when he won't do it!

Yes! Re lowering expectations! That's often part of the problem with me - MUST remember DS is one. Yes, ONE!!

Have managed so far with not yelling or talking badly to DCs. Quite surprised. Have managed to have general meltdown at DH instead :/ Couldn't cope with working out whether to have nap (!), do housework, or pop out to shops for something I needed (not wanted). Ridiculous! Definitely not helped by being mega tired! DCs both poorly and up most of the night... oh when will we sleep again?!

Hope you're all having good and calm weekends! Is it just me or are they sometimes harder in some ways than when DH is at work?!