Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

they are 5 (6 in Jan) 2, nearly 3. Just moved dd2 to bed, so lots of getting out. It will be fine. I am tired and have work I have to do - not their fault. DD2 also needs to rearrange her bedding and change her pyjamas about 20 times before she can settle to go to sleep. DD1 just irritated by it all, i think

I often threaten and fantasise about taking a hammer to their phones, being older mine have moved on from CBeebies type stuff to Big Bang theory, the hundred and idiotic u tube stuff.
Screens are addictive and just like fags, booze and gambling some people are able to take it or leave it, and some would sell their granny to get another fix. Mine (youngest in particular) would have my mum on eBay before you could say "amazing Phil" .....

Yes, the sleep lady said that about the computer/tv before bed. She also said they have to process it sometime which can prolong winding down before bed. Mine used to lie around drinking milk and watching for 30 minutes before the bath and bed routine and she said that was almost like a micro-nap, or certainly a very chilled period giving them the energy to push on for another 2 hours. So bedtimes are miles better without for me.

Ahem. Except that tonight after another whole day of shouting at each other, hitting each other, headbutting, pushing out of the way, snacthing/wrestling with toys and then wrestling each other out of the way to be the one who got to sit on the loo first at bathtie (both boys still in nappies and actually never want to go on the toilet- unless DD does at that particular minute) I burst into tears. I am absolutely at the end of my tether. We are trying to do things from the Siblings without rivalry book. No comparisons (occasionally slip up but more with the positive ones- 'ooh, look, you were as fast as so and so' but know that needs to stop too) . I think it didn't help DD refused to go to preschool so as she'd been up in the night and felt so awful last night I kept her with me but then she was a pain at the playgroup I run (really regretting agreeing to it too) with basically competing with the dts for my attention etc.

I really feel the sibling competitivness and rivalry for attention is out of control here. I think they need more time apart as we are always all together 24/7 bar 2 three hour slots DD does preschool. And at the weekend on one morning we do 'special time' so one child gets some 1:1 which they love but is once in three weeks. Probably not enough but getting the balance right is so hard as there are so many other things to fit into weekends. I want to go for a run. House jobs. Garden jobs (our garden is big and out of control yet again). I am really stuck with how to improve things Any ideas guys?

Just like my Dd. She will come to the lounge to drink water, then give me a kiss, then her dad then it is one thing or another. Why not do it all at once?
lets

I got cross with DD1 who was trying to tell me something and shouted "what?" at her and then she sobbed and cried...she just wanted to show me her wobbly tooth . Horrible mummy.

Pride before a fall! Lost it completely with both boys later on over them fighting. Not helped by DS2 pushing all kinds of buttons at once by telling me to "serve the fishfingers, Mummy" about 10 minutes before they'd even gone in the oven!

DH is really hating the Calm Parent book, which is a shame because I found it helpful and now I don't know if I'll be able to get him on side.

rhet I often end up snapping "What?!" at a child for something innocuous - it's all in the timing and/or persistence of it, isn't it?

I think I made my lovely DD cry 3 times today rhetorician At playgroup for being so exasperated with her snatching and wrestling a toy from DT2 that I told her to just go and sit somewhere else (I was trying to lead the dreaded singing), at bathtime for saying she couldn't have a shower as I'd run the bath but in a horrible irritated way so she probably heard 'you're such a pain DD' and when I burst into tears. Yep. Great parent, me...

I feel bad - she was trying valiantly to help with dd2 ("just lie down dd2, mummy's tired"); but I did apologise before she lay down to go to sleep. She is so volatile at times, liable to fly off the handle over the smallest thing. I wish I could find ways to help her with her social skills a bit more. I've done most of the things that parenting books recommend, but I think she just can't put theory into practice (this is true with a good number of "rules" whether these are overt or covert).

Have you read Raising Your Spirited Child rhet ? Certainly chimes with DS1. Not that I'm great at putting that into practice either!

no, haven't got round to that one yet, although I've seen it recommended a lot. And she is...something. Very sensitive to criticism, bears grudges, struggles to match her response to the situation - will put it on order...

Hi Everyone! I'm still here - 11 days overdue today.

The last few days have been pretty good (for me) although DH shouted at DS1 this morning for pulling at DS2's clothes while they were both trying to give DH a goodbye kiss. I hate it when things like that happen. DH is really bad at remaining calm when he's trying to get out of the house and any slight delay or upset can have him snapping or moaning at them. This upsets me as I always worry that it will stay with the kids all day and that they'll go to school/pre-school thinking "Daddy doesn't love me because he shouted at me".

But, for me, I've managed to stay generally quite calm in the last few days. Don't know why or how.

Dreaming I can't offer any advice, I'm afraid, but hope someone can soon... I'm also worried about getting quality alone time with each of ours when number 3 comes along. How parents with 3 plus kids do it, I'll never know, as well as finding time to get jobs done and that ever elusive "me" time. I have the "siblings without rivalry" book but haven't got past the first few pages. I find all the stories of how their clients turned up at their classes and talked about their own childhoods really boring. Just cut to the chase! Tell me how I can stop my boys from fighting/arguing/being so competitive and cut out all the other anecdotal crap!

The time apart makes such a difference (for my two anyway). They're both angels apart, but together they really know how to wind us both up.

My biggest bugbears at the moment are:

1. DH's unrealistic expectations of our boys. He complains they "never listen" but doesn't stop to think about whether it might be the way he asks for things. He also thinks that nobody else's children behave like ours. He thinks ours are the only ones that don't do as they're told asked and never listen.
2. DS2's anger issues. He's angelic at pre-school, but at home he throws anything and everything if he doesn't get his own way and will tell us to shut up or sod off (although this has been getting slightly better recently). If him and his brother are arguing over a toy, for example, DS2 will lash out and recently, DS1 has started to do the same (which he never used to do - he always used to stay so calm).
3. Controlling my own anger at the little things - such as DS1 being rude when being told something he doesn't want to hear. (I can't remember who made the "just make the fishfingers" comment above, but that is exactly the sort of thing DS1 would say to me if I was giving him a hard time over something). Whilst LOADS of their behaviour is annoying, unlikeable or unacceptable, it IS wholly age-appropriate and probably hopefully wont last forever. It's just biting my tongue and keeping my temper that's so hard. On days where I manage this, their behaviour is generally brilliant. On the days where I start to lose it, nag, pester or shout, their behaviour snowballs along with my mood.

Re: screen time. Both of mine have only just started to REALLY get into the TV. DS2 never used to watch any at all really (he has a VERY short attention span) but now he loves nothing more than to sit through one of theToy Story movies and would watch all three of them all day long if you let him. DS1 has recently discovered that we actually have other channels other than CBeebies and now really loves watching various cartoons (that are probably a bit too old for him, but he loves them nonetheless). When DS1 gets in from school, he's often absolutely shattered, so I see no problem with him winding down for an hour in front of the TV. But the last few weekends, it seems that's all he wants to do first thing in the morning too - which I have a BIG problem with. I want him to be up and burning off energy - not sat in front of the TV the moment he gets up. TV (and any type of screen) is completely banned after 6pm. And if they want to play on their leappad or my kindle, then I limit the time to no more than 1 hour per day (but they generally only play on these a couple of times a week).

Hi mandbabe hopefully not long now. Quick post to say just that really
Well done for managing so well at this physically and emotionally challenging time.

mandbaby ouch. 11days? You are doing great. You sound as if you have the whole lot under control. I lose patience with Dd all the time and end up snapping at her because our discussions go something like this

DD- " mummy can i watch tv?
ME- " yes, just let me finish what i am doing and i will sort it for you. One min later
DD-" mummy, can i please please watch tv".
ME-" Dd let me finish putting the nappy on the baby and i will be with you.
In the same breath
DD-" mummy!! That is when i snap and tell her if she does not stop bothering me and wait then there won't be any TV in this life or the next, at which point she says " mummy, don't be mad. I was just asking if i can watch tv". Ahhggggg. Once is never enough isn't it?

aargh letsgo I did more or less the same thing this morning. Spent 20 whole minutes writing a post without noticing that the battery was about to die and lost it while reading back through it. SO annoying.

We have learnt from experience that we really do need to limit computer game time with DS and that it's best when limited to a specific amount at a specific time of day. Which makes it sound like it should be problem free but it's not always the case! The TV doesn't really cause us problems, they can both take it or leave it.

mandbaby that is one comfy baby! It can't be long now I can really relate to what you've written about DH's expectations. I find the whole co-parenting business tricky generally, tbh. Actually, I can relate to all three of your points.

dreaming it sounds like really hard work at the moment: and a big hug for you. I would highly recommend the time apart, it has made a massive difference for us. It doesn't have to be a huge session and often I find it's making something special out of the ordinary: for example, DS is known for his looooong bathroom stints when having a poo, so when he potters off I grab DD and play games or sing songs or tickle her or do whatever makes us laugh until he's finished. I realise it must be so much harder again with three. I read somewhere that giving them those 5 minutes when they really want it can often buy you more time to get that chore done in peace, and I do find that this is the case. Problem is, sometimes you just need to leave before lunchtime

Thank you for the bird poo info squirrel !!
Rhet yy my DD is also the queen of checklist questioning. The bodily part phase was fun.

Here, I'm finding it tough, we've got some stressful stuff going on at the moment and I'm so tired I keep thinking I'm going to faint. Or cry. Or be sick. PMT is not helping at all, I'm seriously struggling with this at the moment and I don't know what to do about it. I'm taking multi-vitamins (for women) but they don't seem to help. It's like having a head full of dark, miserable fog for a week, along with a body which feels like it's pregnant. Definitely not, FYI :)

Can I join you all? I have ds (10) who drives me insane and dd (7) who is a relative angel. I hate myself at the moment as ds pushes my buttons every single day and I end up shouting, crying, him shouting back, and crying. I get so cross I sometimes snap at dd for the smallest thing which makes her cry.
Ds ignores everything I ask him to do/ not to do until I have said it 3+ times and then shout. He argues about almost anything (I'm not having a shower it's a waste of time, I'm not tired, I'm not hungry so I'm going outside (when dinner is on the table), I didn't ask for toast (at breakfast time), he is really stroppy and I feel speaks to me like a piece of shit.
In short he acts like a spoilt brat but I'm actually quite strict - more so than most of my friends.
Ironically he is an angel at school or when he is at friends houses. He isn't quite as bad for dh but still quite trying.
I've read When your Kids Push your Buttons but found it too dreary to take anything in. I'm beginning to think I need expert help but what and from who? Doctor? School? I'm mortified to think I need to admit this to a professional in rl but I'm at my wits end.
Off to look at the orange rhino site now to see if that will help.
Sorry that was a huge indulgent post but just writing it helps

Yay more joinees :) Welcome PlasticCoat.

Blessed - can you give her something to do while she waits? I find DS' impatience hard to deal with too even though I know really it's just that he's excited and a child and unable to process "five minutes". So I say "OK I have to finish X but if you go and sit on the sofa and wait I'll be in in a minute." Or could you set it up so she can turn it on herself but she has to ask first?

Plastic do you think your DS might be approaching puberty hence the attitude? Or has be always been that way? How do you deal with it when he's rude or gives attitude and how does he react?

what's orange rhino ?

Hi Bertie thanks for the welcome. I wish I could put it down to the onset of puberty but ds has always been a difficult child at home. Things are just worse now, probably because I get more stressed (early peri menopause).
I generally tell him off for being rude / attitude. Depending on how bad (& whether I'm trying to cajole him to get ready for school/bed which is our usual bad time) I will send him to his room. Not much of a punishment for him as he find something to read or play with but I hope it gives him (& me) cooling down time. I used to use the naughty step but think he is too old for that. I keep trying to offer incentives - if you're good and not stroppy this week we will do X at the weekend/ I will get you Y but he rarely earns the incentive and now doesn't even bother trying.

rhet I read about it on here. It's a website to help stop parents shouting I think. Never did get the chance for a proper look this eve.

Typing without specs so my be typos (disclaimer)

plastic a useful book for you may be "how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" have you come across it? It is not dreary and some of us on here have found it so useful that we can get a bit evangelical about it (sorry) for me it kind of helped me to see how my comments, directions, 'helpful' remarks felt to them, and to develop a more constructive pattern of communication.
However...
I find myself sending my stroppy 12 year old to her room as I find the cool off time helps us both. Usually with the proviso that she returns when she has had a cool down and is ready to apologise for shouting at me / hitting her sister / whatever. I make it less bout "punishment" as in confined to room and more about "this is unacceptable behaviour please come back when you are able to talk to me in an ordinary voice" type direction. Keeping calm (modelling the behaviour you want, showing them that the grown up way to behave is to listen and put your point across persistently and calmly ) it won't get rid of the bad behaviour but what you need is a way of dealing with it that allows everyone to move on.

All easier said than done and he's wondering why I'm cross.............
I am going now to take my bad mood out on the hedge with some shears and a lopper

Hedge looks better now. I feel better too

Letsgo thanks for the advice. Will certainly take on the cooling off rather than punishment slant. I have heard of that book but the title didn't sound like what I was looking for. I will bear it in mind but actually downloaded the Calmer Happier book mentioned in this thread last night. I was up til the wee small hours reading it & have started the descriptive praise thing this morning. If this book doesn't help I will try yours
I can understand why you are angry with dh but it's such a typical man response! Either that or 'I don't mind' I now wish I had a hedge to take out my frustrations on!!

I hope everyone is having a good day with well behaved dc

Descriptive praise will certainly get you far along the road to where you want to be. It's a great place to start. I have .nt read that book, the calmer happier one. Probably should.

I wouldn't mind an "I don't mind" response, then I could just pick the colour I liked.

Calmer Happier etc book is actually very good, although if you are a cynical negative cow like me you do feel like a right plonker. Luckily DD1 doesn't really 'get' irony yet...(which no doubt completely undermines the point of doing it). I have to remember to tell dd when I pick her up that she was the best reader on her table this week

I must admit to feeling a right plonker too! Couldn't help adding the ending 'well done' or 'good boy' though - need to learn to just say what I need to say without the extras. This morning was relatively calm so maybe the technique is a miracle cure

rhet best reader is brilliant! How do you do that as descriptive praise, umm 'you were the best reader on your table well done' lol!

Letsgo can you not buy the paint/decorate & present it as a fait a compleit (or however that's spelled!)