Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

moresnowplease I think if you suspect you have PND it's worth at least investigating that - you do sound like you are struggling to cope and some acknowledgement of that seems required. Do you have any support? Anyone who can watch them for an hour while you go for a walk, or sit and drink a coffee on your own in a cafe? You sound like you need a hug, at the very least

Found you all again, not caught up yet but hopefully I'll get there in the end!

Was inspired to find thread again as I've definitely been in need of some inspiration to be a better parent since term started again. Both DS's have been tired and misbehaving and I'm not responding well. I think they'd still be being awful if I was doing better, but my responses definitely don't help and I feel I should be the mature adult in the situation. I have been snappy, rather than shouty, but it's probably just as bad.

I have always been a calm, patient, laid-back person, can be relied upon to be keeping my head when everyone else is losing theirs at work and I cannot understand how and why my children make me so angry (maybe need to read the button pushing book?).

moresnow huge hug for you. Yes. see your GP and I can't believe your useless hv let you leave in that state Without even flipping helping with your ds1! Hope you can get some help. baby crying is soul destroying. I nearly lost the plot with the dts who cried constantly.

I'm. going to buy the buttons book.

No time but wanted to have a quick catch up and (((((moresnow))))) I couldn't read and run. I've been there. I don't know what RL support you have but if by some massive coincidence we're local I'd happily come round to make you a cuppa/entertain the boys for a bit/whatever. PM if you want, I know the chances are slim. Clearly I'm not parent of the year but I could do that

Big supportive vibes out to everyone, hope to post properly soon xx

moresnow sounds like you have had a rotten run of illness etc that has certainly left you tired and run down. It is much harder to deal with the stresses in that condition. You may have PND, your not v helpful HV should have been the ideal person to diagnose that, but lets not go there....if this feeling persists I agree that you should see your GP.
Also you may not have PND. You might be having a difficult and emotional few days. What you describe chimed with me. I remember crying in public ridiculously, humiliatingly at times when my youngest was small, as well as having that 'what should I do first? ' feeling you describe. I didn't have PND but I was v emotional. It passed. Sleep, eat, drink and stay hydrated especially if you are still expressing. With the jobs, don't multi-task, do one job. Sit down. Congratulate yourself on your great achievement. Have a Do the next task. Sit down. Congratulate....etc etc.

When it gets overwhelming and you want to screech, try breathing out, long and slow. Turn it (the anger and frustration) round by verbalising a different feeling. Think of something now that you could say when you get mad. I have found that simply saying "I love you dd3/ dd2" can really instantly defuse a situation. Sometimes when they (or you!) are behaving really badly, that's when they need to hear that affirmation.
And don't worry, it will get better. Hugs for you here too. I'm also happy to be PM'd. I would hate to think that one of you was round the corner or in the next village and needing RL support.

rhetorician I like what you say about expectation. It was a revelation to me that we give birth to complete strangers. My daughters might have my eyes but that's about the only thing we all have in common.

bertie I hope you feel better soon too. Sometimes I think we ( my DH, The children, me)would be closer if we had no option but to talk to one another, no TV, no ipad, no phones. Try eating together if you can ( I know it is hard if you are outnumbered 2:1 and struggling with motivation......) but it would be a positive move for lots of reasons. What was it monkey said in that original original post "one less crap thing at a time" or something like that....? ( sorry monkey if I'm misquoting ) you know there are things you want to change, only you know which you can prioritise. Share it on here and we can nag you if you like

dreaming I love the sound of your garden, how many wheely toys? And still they fight over the micro scooters I'm not surprised you feel like losing the plot some days. I think you are great. Your posts make me laugh and your energy is incredible.
My positive today is that for the second Friday on the bounce DD3 did not stamp her little foot and declare that she was not going to her piano lesson. (She always went in the end, and enjoyed it, her teacher is lovely, she practises voluntarily most days and loves being able to play...just had to have a big tantrum every time half an hour before her lesson and make things difficult for everyone) but not today, and not last Friday
My other positive is that after a hectic day off decorating and fixing house stuff I've managed pinch the ipad back off DH and get this huge post written.

(I wonder how mandbaby is getting on..........)

((((Hugs))))) moresnow even if you don't have PND your hormones will be out of whack, you're likely to be exhausted, and you are wrangling multiple DC who will be having their own reactions. I don't think we are built to do this sort of thing as a single grownup. It takes a village right? That HV should have helped you!

DP and I have been talking lately about whether we should make a last ditch attempt at a second DC. I've been feeling good and a bit clucky recently. But now I'm noticing my reaction to DS's assessment coming up as it gets closer and I'm struggling. Worrying, anxiety, shame even. I know this is rooted in old issues. Thought they were dealt with them but evidently not

dreaming you are right, we all do find fault with our own situations. I wish we didn't. I wish I could just accept that we have a singleton DS who will in all likelihood have some special needs. Not the end of the world. But so different from the hopes I had years ago.

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to check in and apologise for asking to join the thread and then not being any use at all to anyone. I think I probably don't have time at the moment to commit to posting regularly, by the time I've read the posts I don't have time to answer any of them and I don't want to just come on and post selfishly as you all support each other so well. Thank you all for the welcome anyway, and good luck to all of you. I've taken some great advice from all of you.

I'm still here. 6 days overdue and thoroughly miserable. I've been a horrible mummy (and wife) the last week. Lost my temper so many times. I've yelled, man-handled, belittled, etc. I feel so ashamed that I can't handle my anger and irritability better. Sometimes (very often actually) I can feel my fuse about to blow but rather than breathing deeply, counting to ten, removing myself from the situation, it actually feels like I conscientiously choose to do the opposite. The other evening, DH was working late so I was doing the bath and bedtime routine alone. DS1 got all emotional when I let the water out of the bath (crying "it's gone down the plughole and out to sea! Waaaaaaaaaah!") - despite me giving several countdowns to the end of bathtime. He was obviously tired and over emotional after a busy day at school but rather than being empathetic and calm, I man-handled him out of the bath, dried him roughly, forced his pyjamas on, all whilst he was crying and I was yelling. Even when he was telling me how he thought I was a nice mummy now and why was I shouting at and scaring him, I still couldn't calm down. A similar incident happened with DS2 last week. I pretty much marched him into bed after suffering with his irrational tantrums for far too long and left him crying in his bed. Before I'd had chance to return to DS1s bedroom, DS2 threw something and there was a really loud crash and bang. I rushed back in to his room to find his gro-clock across the room, a dent in his wall and his nose was bleeding :(

Why oh why do I keep allowing this to happen?! I know how to calm them down and diffuse a tantrum, but instead I make them worse. Often. :(

More snow, big hugs for you. So much of what you say rings so true with me that I often wonder if I have PND too. I'm terrified of admitting it to anyone though, especially DH as I know he will be completely unsupportive. How mad is that? My own husband, I know, would not be sympathetic but instead would think that I should snap out of it and be grateful, and therefore happy, with my life. He really sees any depression as a choice and state of mind, rather than something that you have no control over. :(

mandbaby positives first. Despite being hugely pregnant and overdue you are coping with sole charge of two small people for long hours each day. No matter how bad a job you think you are doing, you are doing it.

To care for others you also need to be cared for. You cannot give and give and give without needing a bit back.

You need some practical support and help now. It may help you to go to your health visitor or your GP and tell them you are stretched too thin and are not coping. First though tell your DH that you really need him to step in and be the Daddy with your older boys. This conversation is best held at a calm time, once the children are in bed. I know you worry about his parenting style with them but you cannot do all this yourself and you know that. I have seen other families where the dad is left to do nothing because he "won't do it like I do". Now is not the time to worry about being the perfect parent. Good enough is good enough.

Your children have seen a different type of parenting, and are now expecting a more calm approach. They are also articulate and assertive enough to ask for it. (Another positive, you've done that despite lack of support and the exhaustion of pregnancy, you care enough to do the work that makes a difference to your relationship with your boys..and they have noticed ! )

Will try and send a pm too
You need some of these (((((()))))) and one of these and a shoulder to do this on, the chance to express your at (guessing here....) the lack of support you are not getting from DH.

I wish you a good nights sleep, an easy labour ( my third was a breeze, you'll walk it....) cooperative children and a DH who pitches in.

letsgo thank you so much for your kind words.

Don't get me wrong - DH is fabulous in SO many ways and he works incredibly hard and is very tired too. Even as I type, he's in the study marking school work and has been since the moment the boys went to bed (and does so virtually every single evening). His job is very pressurised and I don't know how he does it . He's definitely doing his fair share at the moment.

It almost feels like I've written off the last 6 weeks because I know that dc3 is on the way and that will be the start of a new chapter in my life: a fresh start to do better, try harder, shout less and be the mother I know I can be (when I'm not weighed down by the negative feelings and fatigue caused by being 41 weeks pregnant). Does that make sense? (Put another way, it's like when you stuff your face with all the chocolates and cakes before your diet starts on Monday. I'm shouting at the boys now but promise to stop when dc3 is here. That's the theory anyway).

I will pay close attention to my thoughts, feelings and actions once dc3 has arrived and will seek help if I feel it's needed. However, I do have a tendency to over-think and over-worry and perhaps I'm worried about PND when in actual fact it is just a case of needing the things you suggest: a big hug, a good cry, a little me-time and a shoulder to cry on occasionally. Or even just someone to moan to.

Thank God for this thread.

biff , no need to commit! no need to reply to everyone. There are lots of us who don't have time to post regularly. It is absolutely fine to just offload, or lurk or dip in and out.
There may be a few lurkers. This is for you, lurkers.

Take what you need

This evenings positive for me is the following. Despite massive strops DD3 has finished her homework and has therefore earned a viewing of X factor tonight.
It was a close thing but I'm really pleased she managed to calm down and focus on what she needed to do rather than all her energy going on "the rage". DH earned a from me though because after staying calm, recognising her positive actions, cooking tea, clearing up, helping her with the tricky stuff and defusing last minute panics "It's starting in 5 minutes and I've still got all this to do! " I sent her through to watch the festival of emotional manipulation that is X factor and DH Says 'now wouldn't it have been easier if you'd just got on and done that in the first place?'

Cue another mini meltdown at the patronising pointing out of what she'd done wrong, just as she was being rewarded for doing right. Aaaarrrrrgh!
It has finished now, bedtime for her ......lets see how this goes......

Cross posted ( have PM'd you mandbaby) completely know where you are with the 'diet starts tomorrow' analogy

Massive hugs to everyone who needs them. ((((())))))

I have been very ratty with the boys today, and don't particularly know why. Partly to do with having been away for 1 evening and 1 day and coming back to utter chaos - in DH's defence it was particularly manic with birthday parties, swimming lessons and all sorts that he doesn't normally deal with!

Then this evening, DS2 told me I was "the best mummy in the world" which nearly made me cry because I know I'm not. Need to work on the "good enough is good enough" mantra!

Hi all. I have been lurking from day one. I almost posted but chickened out. I have a Dd(4) and Ds(6 months). I am horrible to my 4 yr old. I feel guilty for shouting at her all the time. After the birth of Ds, i just stopped focussing on her. My attention( all of it is taken by Ds. Thank God for dh who is hands on with the kids esp her.

I just lose my patience easily because she won't shut up. From when she wakes up to when she sleeps. I wish her chattering was nonsensical, she talks about the planets in all their glory, the digestive system,the world map and location of countries. I do not want to hear it ALL the time . I can not answer all of her questions. She is in daycare so does not lack playmates. It was great in the begginning but now, not so much. I realise she was attention seeking and still is and so she should but boy it can be tiresome. I guess i just wanted to say guilt has been my middle name these past 6months. Things are getting better though. Please don't be harsh on me. I do love her to eternity. I just became a barracuda after birthing ds. It feels like the real me before ds me is hiding somewhere.

Recently she drew a picture of me with my mobile in my hands and said that is you mummy ,always with your phone when i am talking to you. I dropped it like a hot potato. I am trying to find things to do together without Ds and i know she will love it. Fingers crossed we will do something out of the house this week( and breathe). Sorry for the long me, myself and i post.

Blessed you sound very angry with yourself - seriously, it is really really tough having a baby and a demanding preschool child. Your DD sounds ferociously curious and bright - would it help to find ways to direct her interests that might give you a break and a bit more time with the baby? e.g. ask her to draw a picture of the digestive system, or get her a puzzle map where she can put in the names of countries etc. She just sounds like she needs someone to engage with her to me. Is her daycare pitched at her level? What does she like to do besides talking!!?? And she is attention seeking, but it could be much more negative than wanting to share stuff with you and learn from you...and she needs your attention, she is 4. If you can't answer her questions, empower her to seek answers herself. Can she read?

Ooh! Did my wine cake tea flowers splurge tempt you in?

Welcome BA thanks for de-lurking. You won't get harshness here. you listened to her today anyway and want things to get better. Good luck in finding stuff to do and rebuilding things with your DD. She sounds bright as a button by the way.

Biffa please stay, you don't have to reply to anyone let alone everyone! I hate chat threads because of that, I always feel like I'm supposed to have something to say to everyone and usually I don't and it's hard. So if a random thought occurs in response to someone jot it down, if not, just read, ask questions, whatever.

I am feeling far too sick to do individual things. I went out last night and reacted horribly to quite a small amount of alcohol. I haven't been that drunk in a LONG time and it wasn't pleasant! But did chat to a lot of lovely people about general life/parenting/stuff. Had a good chat with a woman whose DCs are 19, 16 and 14 so that was nice for some perspective :)

Hugs to all who need them! (Gentle ones though please!)

rheto you hit the nail on the head. I am mad and pissed off with myself all the time. I got her interested in all that because i only had her and she is quite smart. I never pushed. That is how we used to play together. I felt if i plied her with difficult info that would shut her up:) not my dd.I am angry because i can not concentrate. It's like i have a brain freeze or something. I am forgetful, my concentration span is like that of a 2 yr old. She is very outdoorsy?? They are out the whole day so when she comes home my idea of bonding is giving her a bath while asking about her day. I will get two words in response then the singing starts. If i ask her to draw something she will just talk and ask questions until i snap at her. Fellow mnetters, i work in a kindergaten so i can promise you i love kids.

My company sends me to different places and i can honestly say i have never met a child that talks as much as my dd. From 9months with daddy as her first word:) she never stopped. If she wakes up at 1am you name it, she will want to talk:)The questions i can't answer are not about science or anything meaningful. Its just random things she will ask like why is Africa in Africa:). The answers are not good enough for her. Dh takes care of the rest. You know what, just typing all this is reminding me how awesome this girl is. Dh need to look after the baby more while i get my girl back. I felt really proud of myself that i managed to ignore Ds for a while to read to her,actually read not cruise through the pages so i can go back to the baby. Great times ahead.

Bertie a bit rusty aren't you:)? Get better soon.

Letsgoforawalk thank you. She really is smart. I would love to share more but then that will be boasting innit.

Sorry for the smiles. I just feel so much better after posting. Don't know why but i feel lighter so the smiles are real..

One more thing to apologise for. English is not my mother tongue so do forgive me please if some of it does not make sense:)

Just sticking my head in (or above water) to say hi to everyone - I know it's been a while. I am still here, but really sorry for not being able to post. I am struggling with feeling that I don't have enough time for anything at the moment. Not for my kids, my job, my health, my husband, my friends and family. Feeling a bit stuck and unable to move forward. The DCs have been pretty good since going back to school but DS1 can still be very challenging and I have days (like today) where I wonder if I have actually lost him. It is so hard to get through to him and it drives me to the edge of my sanity when I try because he throws everything back in my face with a faster wit than I can even keep up with because I am so god-damned tired the whole time. Feels like I am losing the battle for communication with DH which is most of the problem really. And I am stuck there too. Could really use some unsticking strategy...!
mandbaby - good luck with the birth. You are doing amazingly. I remember being 6 days over with both of mine and it really sucked.
Sorry not to be able to offer any other advice to anyone but thank you for being there, all of you.

searching just wanted to say i hear you. Not much advice i am afraid but hoping things will get better. I could not read the whole thread so have no idea how old your Dc are. The tiredness does not help either and that is exactly what i described in my top posts. They are not that witty but in our tiredness if feels so.

Wrt Your Dh, how do you guys communicate? Are you on the same page when it comes to disciplining and such? I find that the few times Dh went agains me created an in your face attitude from Dd. Now we agree in everything. I hope you will find a way to communicate better together. Crossing fingers for you:) sorry couldn't help much.

My Ds slept well and i find i am well rested and smiling. Is that why i have been not there? Lack of sleep? Anyone did sleep training? Which one worked for you? I feel ds needs it. He struggles to sleep and i can't say i have helped much by going to bed with him every night.

Good morning all.

Thank you blessed. I am glad you are feeling more positive - this thread is a really good place to be. Reading your post - your daughter and my son sound quite similar. He is 5 and a half now and incredibly eloquent and bright. He wants to be a scientist and will talk incessantly about dinosaurs and meteorites and the solar system as well as about star wars (which is where he loses me most). I am grateful that he is so clever but it is also why it is so hard to handle him. He doesn't miss a trick and I feel like my brain is fried at the moment with so much going on at home and at work that I just can't keep up with him. It is exhausting. Today was a bad day. A really bad day. I yelled at them both, snapped at them both and, at my lowest point, snapped in half and shoved in the bin the toy telescope that he was taunting me with when I just needed him to put his shoes on so we could get out of the door. The return of monster mummy. DH took them both out and I hurled myself onto our bed and screamed into the duvet. Then I cried and cried and cried :( I don't know why everything has just come crashing down on me recently but I suspect it is related to also feeling out of control at work and bringing all of that worry home with me. DH and I don't really communicate. Even today, he still hasn't asked me if I'm ok or what the hell happened. I think he thinks it is best not to go there for fear of upsetting me. And I don't want to bring it up because I don't have the energy for a big discussion even though it is what we really need. I think I really just need some help and just don't know how to ask for it. I am considering looking for another therapist to be honest but this time - no excuses - it is all about me. No bullshit about worries about my son. It is me who needs the help. I go from crazy furious to chilled and feeling it really isn't so bad about 20 times a day. That is not normal, right? And so ends our weekend. I have a full on week ahead back into the other crazy world I inhabit which tears me away from the place and the person I want to be, and yet I put myself there and I chose those shoes, so more fool me.

I apologise for the totally self obsessed post. Promise to try to be more positive and helpful next time