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HELP ADVICE NEEDED OVER DS NIGHTMARE FRIEND

123 replies

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 10:40

Hi, this is a LONG thread so please read, help me, don't judge and give me any advice where possible, thanks.

I met another woman through my DS starting nursery school. Me and her really hit it off, and I love her to bits, she's like my best friend, we have a lot of chemistry and we are going away together for a few days for her 30th. Honestly, we are like sisters. The issue, however, lies with her son. At first, her DS would just begin to grate on me, now I genuinely feel concerned about the situation. He is only about 3/4 months younger than my DS who is now 4 (so in 6 weeks her DS will be 4) but there are a lot of problems I have begun to notice with him. Let me also tell you, I am not blowing my own trumpet here, but I am a very good mum. I love kids, and act childlike myself sometimes just to make them smile, so it's not as if I've developed an instant dislike for her DS. Anyway, here are a few things I'd like to point out, to anyone with experience in this situation, about the experience I have constantly with her DS and perhaps someone can shed some light:

A) Speech - I have noticed for a 4-year-old his speech is behind. It's not so much that he doesn't have a wide vocabulary, it's more how he vocalises things. He often misplaces vowels and doesn't speak with definition. The best way I can describe it is, he doesn't curl his tongue round the correct words and often mis-pronunciates. His speech is also long and drawn out almost like a drawl, and almost as though every sentence he makes has a question sound at the end. Example:

Bye-bee wear jarmaaaasss (baby wears pyjamas)

Yaaahhhh (instead of yes or yeah)

I burn my haaaaaandddd onnnnn coooookaaaaaahhhh (I burnt my hand on the cooker)

Sometimes it is hard to define what he is saying but his words are very stretched out and prolonged. So he IS saying sentences. And it's nothing to do with having an accent or anything.

B) Constant Shrill Scream - Whenever you try and be nice to him or ask him something he always responds with a NO!! (in a high-pitched, shrill voice). Followed by inaudible mumbling. Sometimes this can be hard to bear when you take the kids to a soft playcentre, and his screams can reach fever-pitch. This isn't followed by tantrums of throwing himself on the floor and kicking or screaming, this is the way he answers things. Instead of just a "No, I don't want that!" this isn't an occassional thing, this is pretty much how he's wired.

C) Controlling and Bossy - He is very controlling of my DS and I don't like it. I have tried my very best to reason with him and have lots of patience, treated them both fairly and gave him the same amount of affection and play towards him as I have my own DS. But he is very domineering. When he comes to my house to play, he stomps upstairs, ransacks my DS' toys and stomps all over them, pulls down his Fireman tent and screams in his face. Even when my DS is being nice and saying "Why? I just want to play with you?" which he will then receive a sharp, shrill "No!!" in response. He won't let my DS play with his own toys, and forces him to play with toys or do things he doesn't want to do, which is very upsetting to see.

D) Destructive and Violent - many times he has shoved, hit and even bitten my DS. He backhaded him yesterday, without even looking at him, almost as an impulse. He went into the yard, and pulled out all the leaves, he stomped all over the ants to which my DS got upset because he loves nature and animals, and he's just basically very destructive, banging toys together, throwing them, stomping round.

E) Lack of empathy/compassion - there are instances he can be nice when he is excited about something i.e. getting a new toy for example, but he lacks the kind of compassion 4-year-olds generally have. He will stomp on insects without consideration or do things without thinking about his actions or the consequences. And doesn't consider people's feelings either. By age 4, kids are starting to understand feelings and emotions and how they can affect people and the world around them.

F) Lack of maturity - this is a weird one I know, as kids can't necessarily be mature at this age but they do have an increased sense of the world around them, the actions they take and even the ways in which they converse. I find, for his age, her DS appears to be somewhat more like a 2-year-old than a 4-year-old.

G) Repeats words - although her DS appears to says things that come to his mind, which he does, he tends to repeat many things that have already been said. When my DS expresses joy or excitement about something and follows with a statment, her DS will repeat quite clearly what my DS has said, but struggles to manifest or initiate conversations or certain words himself.

H) Unusual Affection toward Baby - I have a baby girl who is 6 months old and he is very adoring of her. In fact, I find him more gentle and sweet toward her than anyone else. He will vey often kiss her and stroke her head and go "Arrrrr little Bye-beeeeee" (Arrrr little baby)

I) He is very hyperactive - now, let me make it clear. Kids can be hyped, especially if they've been couped up, and as soon as they are outside they are bursting with energy and won't keep still. This is not unusual. However, my DS will sit for long periods doing floor puzzles, watching a cartoon or colouring or drawing. Her DS with scribble aggressively and won't keep still sometimes. It's hard to throw this one if there I suppose because it can vary from child to child but just thought I would add it as a key point.

I know you might look at this and think I'm just being very harsh and there must be some good that he does, but if I'm being honest, he's very much hard work. And I so longed for him and my DS to be good little play buddies. Now, I'm starting to wonder if there are behavioural issues here or something. My DS has never lashed out at him and has been very patient with him, but I can see the frustration building in him, and I feel like I can't have him around my DS anymore. On occassion my DS has also said "I don't like XXX I don't want to play with him anymore. He just hits me, and shouts NO!" I have got to be honest, I am glad my DS will also be in the year ahead so they won't be in the same class come September (as my DS he starts Reception).

This is a very tough situation for me, as she's my best friend, but my DS has to come first. And if he's miserable, and I struggle to be around him myself, then I can't have them playing together. I need to tell my friend that I think there is honestly an issue there but it's a very touchy subject as parents don't often like to admit there is something going on with their child. I find her at her wits end many many times but she just makes excuses like "Oh, he's just too independent and won't let other people do stuff for him" or "Oh, he's just fed-up because it's the summer holidays".

I don't know if she's in denial but I feel like things just can't go on like this until she does something. I care about her and her DS very much and will support her 100% but until a resolution happens, I don't want to see my DS being used as an emotional punchbag.

Please advise on what to do and what to say. And what you think the issue may be. Thank you!

OP posts:
KernowKids · 15/08/2014 14:52

Lack of empathy/compassion and Unusual Affection toward Baby - whatever he does, he's in the wrong!

gamerchick · 15/08/2014 14:53

Op don't bring this up with your friend. If she asks you why you've restricted contact then fair enough but there is very few ways you're going to be able to do this without upsetting her.

KernowKids · 15/08/2014 14:55

And it is fine for your children to not have an ongoing friendship and for you to continue to meet your friend. if they are not going to be in the same class/year etc, they will naturally have a lot less to do with each other.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 14:59

So I'm to stop contact and not explain why? She willl most likely cut ties with me if I don't explain anything. I can't just say don't let them play together but not tell her anything.

OP posts:
Damnautocorrect · 15/08/2014 15:00

My very loveliest friend and me had babies weeks apart. They were very similar at 3-4. 5 it's a different story, cheeky lovely friends.
Those few visits at 3-4 were hard so I sympathise, distance the boys a bit (school will be a great excuse) and hopefully when your friends boy starts school it will be easier

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 15:01

thanks damnautocorrect it's nice to know people can give me honest advice who have experienced similar situations

OP posts:
quietlysuggests · 15/08/2014 15:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 15:04

take my prying eyes off this little boy, what are you insinuating here?

OP posts:
Emskiness · 15/08/2014 15:04

im not preying on this little boy at all, this thread has gotten really silly, let's just leave it at that

OP posts:
Emskiness · 15/08/2014 15:06

I have to leave now and im hiding/removing the thread ive msgd the mods i dont want this to get out of hand as some of the comments are

OP posts:
gamerchick · 15/08/2014 15:14

You don't have to explain anything.. just steer meet ups to child free ones or as has been mentioned upthread in wide open spaces. It's been pointed out to you that from September your child will be at school so meet ups can happen as they are now.. just your child won't be there and make sure they're at her house.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 15/08/2014 15:17

You don't have to tell her nothing. Just simply say "the kids seem to be at a stage right now where they're not getting along that well, shall we just meet up for coffee during the school year when they are in school/nursery so we can chat rather than spend all our time chasing after the kids?"

No blame placed. It's the truth. No big deal.

I have some friends that our kids get along well, and others that they just don't - for various reasons, sometimes simply because they have older kids and mine are younger and drive them nuts right now. So we meet without the kids. Nobody is offended. Kids aren't going to be friends just because you expect them to be, regardless of any other issues that may or may not be going on.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 15/08/2014 15:17

That should be you don't have to tell her "nothing"... not a grammatical error. Yeesh.

MadameOvary · 15/08/2014 15:20

OP, I have been in your shoes. Voiced concerns like this and been totally shot down for them (rightly, in my case) It's hard but at ultimately children get on or they don't, esp at this age when they can change so much in less than a year. There just isn't much you can do about it. I thought there must be something I could do or say...there wasn't.

tobeabat · 15/08/2014 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ber2291 · 15/08/2014 15:27

OP I get where you're coming from but you are
Coming across as a bit of a dick here. If you've ever been on mumsnet before you should know that dictating how other people should parent is never going to go down well. It is pretty clear you are annoyed by her parenting and wish she would do things your way (and yes, warning, consequences, punishment etc probably is the right way in a lot of cases). I come home all the time and joke to DH that f everyone just did things my way it would all be fine! But I know I'm being an unreasonable twat. Listen to what everyone else has said, be friends separately from your kids, leave her to parent as she chooses.

Monstersincq · 15/08/2014 15:29

Tobeabat I was going to say the same thing! You even deigned to dance with them! You are both a special needs expert and the purest kindest of all humans.

tobeabat · 15/08/2014 15:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFirmament · 15/08/2014 15:36

It is a lot of detailed analysis of this child who is still only 3. Most people wouldn't think about so much, they'd just think "X's DS can be a bit difficult to be around, he needs watching closely, but then he's only little." I think take a step back is good advice. He's not your child and he's so young that you can't yet know if all these things are issues at all. You also sound like you have an unusually well-behaved placid DS by contrast. My DC have NEVER sat and coloured in nicely for ages for example, and they are both fine, just not good at entertaining themselves.

OTOH, I've had something similar and I did leave it too long. I made friends with someone when our DC were 4 and 3. My 3yo was quite tantrummy and difficult and hers was a handful too, so she always used to say how alike they were (though mine wasn't violent, but I was too polite to point that out!). But as time went on I started feeling really concerned that her child seemed to have no empathy or conscience at all, and was physically and verbally really vicious, to my DS and also to me and my DP.

I don't blame the child, he may have some serious issues or SN yet to come out, or it may be a parenting issue, but the risk to my kids became too much and I have cooled off the friendship. I now feel guilty that I didn't do it sooner because of the amount of bullying and violence it took to get to that point. I thought he would grow out of it or learn, but his parents never took charge (and yes I do think that was crap of them, so sue me) and he is now 11 and frankly scares me.

Oh and he is also extremely, almost excessively, affectionate to babies. Knowing what he is capable of – e.g. sudden, unpredictable violence and behaviour with possibly very serious consequences –I didn't like him being like that with my DC2, it put me on edge.

Just keep an eye on things. It might be nothing. It might be that he is just different from your child in lots of ways, but not unusual for 3. Or it might be that there does come a point where you need to extricate yourself to protect your DC, and I don't think anyone should be judged for that decision. But don't overthink it, just focus on your own DC.

SystemId · 15/08/2014 15:42

Hav

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 15/08/2014 15:46

The OP has flounced - clearly none of us have given her the advice she wanted to hear.

I suspect what we should have said is, "You should tell your friend all of this - you clearly know so much about children and their development, and she will be so grateful for your wisdom. You should probably write out a plan for how you will solve all his behavioural issues. She is so lucky to have you as a friend". Hmm

KatoPotato · 15/08/2014 15:52

YY SDT

"Hey OP, why don't you print out your OP and give to your friend? Do keep the alphabetised sections, she'll really appreciate them'

Deverethemuzzler · 15/08/2014 15:56

Looks like someone has been doing some googling and taking notes Hmm

Lawd save us from armchair experts.

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