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HELP ADVICE NEEDED OVER DS NIGHTMARE FRIEND

123 replies

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 10:40

Hi, this is a LONG thread so please read, help me, don't judge and give me any advice where possible, thanks.

I met another woman through my DS starting nursery school. Me and her really hit it off, and I love her to bits, she's like my best friend, we have a lot of chemistry and we are going away together for a few days for her 30th. Honestly, we are like sisters. The issue, however, lies with her son. At first, her DS would just begin to grate on me, now I genuinely feel concerned about the situation. He is only about 3/4 months younger than my DS who is now 4 (so in 6 weeks her DS will be 4) but there are a lot of problems I have begun to notice with him. Let me also tell you, I am not blowing my own trumpet here, but I am a very good mum. I love kids, and act childlike myself sometimes just to make them smile, so it's not as if I've developed an instant dislike for her DS. Anyway, here are a few things I'd like to point out, to anyone with experience in this situation, about the experience I have constantly with her DS and perhaps someone can shed some light:

A) Speech - I have noticed for a 4-year-old his speech is behind. It's not so much that he doesn't have a wide vocabulary, it's more how he vocalises things. He often misplaces vowels and doesn't speak with definition. The best way I can describe it is, he doesn't curl his tongue round the correct words and often mis-pronunciates. His speech is also long and drawn out almost like a drawl, and almost as though every sentence he makes has a question sound at the end. Example:

Bye-bee wear jarmaaaasss (baby wears pyjamas)

Yaaahhhh (instead of yes or yeah)

I burn my haaaaaandddd onnnnn coooookaaaaaahhhh (I burnt my hand on the cooker)

Sometimes it is hard to define what he is saying but his words are very stretched out and prolonged. So he IS saying sentences. And it's nothing to do with having an accent or anything.

B) Constant Shrill Scream - Whenever you try and be nice to him or ask him something he always responds with a NO!! (in a high-pitched, shrill voice). Followed by inaudible mumbling. Sometimes this can be hard to bear when you take the kids to a soft playcentre, and his screams can reach fever-pitch. This isn't followed by tantrums of throwing himself on the floor and kicking or screaming, this is the way he answers things. Instead of just a "No, I don't want that!" this isn't an occassional thing, this is pretty much how he's wired.

C) Controlling and Bossy - He is very controlling of my DS and I don't like it. I have tried my very best to reason with him and have lots of patience, treated them both fairly and gave him the same amount of affection and play towards him as I have my own DS. But he is very domineering. When he comes to my house to play, he stomps upstairs, ransacks my DS' toys and stomps all over them, pulls down his Fireman tent and screams in his face. Even when my DS is being nice and saying "Why? I just want to play with you?" which he will then receive a sharp, shrill "No!!" in response. He won't let my DS play with his own toys, and forces him to play with toys or do things he doesn't want to do, which is very upsetting to see.

D) Destructive and Violent - many times he has shoved, hit and even bitten my DS. He backhaded him yesterday, without even looking at him, almost as an impulse. He went into the yard, and pulled out all the leaves, he stomped all over the ants to which my DS got upset because he loves nature and animals, and he's just basically very destructive, banging toys together, throwing them, stomping round.

E) Lack of empathy/compassion - there are instances he can be nice when he is excited about something i.e. getting a new toy for example, but he lacks the kind of compassion 4-year-olds generally have. He will stomp on insects without consideration or do things without thinking about his actions or the consequences. And doesn't consider people's feelings either. By age 4, kids are starting to understand feelings and emotions and how they can affect people and the world around them.

F) Lack of maturity - this is a weird one I know, as kids can't necessarily be mature at this age but they do have an increased sense of the world around them, the actions they take and even the ways in which they converse. I find, for his age, her DS appears to be somewhat more like a 2-year-old than a 4-year-old.

G) Repeats words - although her DS appears to says things that come to his mind, which he does, he tends to repeat many things that have already been said. When my DS expresses joy or excitement about something and follows with a statment, her DS will repeat quite clearly what my DS has said, but struggles to manifest or initiate conversations or certain words himself.

H) Unusual Affection toward Baby - I have a baby girl who is 6 months old and he is very adoring of her. In fact, I find him more gentle and sweet toward her than anyone else. He will vey often kiss her and stroke her head and go "Arrrrr little Bye-beeeeee" (Arrrr little baby)

I) He is very hyperactive - now, let me make it clear. Kids can be hyped, especially if they've been couped up, and as soon as they are outside they are bursting with energy and won't keep still. This is not unusual. However, my DS will sit for long periods doing floor puzzles, watching a cartoon or colouring or drawing. Her DS with scribble aggressively and won't keep still sometimes. It's hard to throw this one if there I suppose because it can vary from child to child but just thought I would add it as a key point.

I know you might look at this and think I'm just being very harsh and there must be some good that he does, but if I'm being honest, he's very much hard work. And I so longed for him and my DS to be good little play buddies. Now, I'm starting to wonder if there are behavioural issues here or something. My DS has never lashed out at him and has been very patient with him, but I can see the frustration building in him, and I feel like I can't have him around my DS anymore. On occassion my DS has also said "I don't like XXX I don't want to play with him anymore. He just hits me, and shouts NO!" I have got to be honest, I am glad my DS will also be in the year ahead so they won't be in the same class come September (as my DS he starts Reception).

This is a very tough situation for me, as she's my best friend, but my DS has to come first. And if he's miserable, and I struggle to be around him myself, then I can't have them playing together. I need to tell my friend that I think there is honestly an issue there but it's a very touchy subject as parents don't often like to admit there is something going on with their child. I find her at her wits end many many times but she just makes excuses like "Oh, he's just too independent and won't let other people do stuff for him" or "Oh, he's just fed-up because it's the summer holidays".

I don't know if she's in denial but I feel like things just can't go on like this until she does something. I care about her and her DS very much and will support her 100% but until a resolution happens, I don't want to see my DS being used as an emotional punchbag.

Please advise on what to do and what to say. And what you think the issue may be. Thank you!

OP posts:
FatewiththeLeadPiping · 15/08/2014 11:41

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Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:42

This isn't petty squabbles and not sharing. This is him shoving, hitting and biting my DS. Naturally, it concerns me. And I have taken a lof of advice here on board. And perhaps I will talk to my friend. But for now, I'll leave it there.

OP posts:
gamerchick · 15/08/2014 11:42

A lot of what you posted could have been my child at 4 who's autistic.. In fact he's 7 now and is emotionally like a 4 year old so I try and adjust what is expected of him.

If my friend posted what you did I would have nothing more to do with her and her perfect kid. I don't think you quite understand how you're coming across.

If her kid is that much of a nightmare then see her child free and I certainly wouldn't bring it up. Be assured he will be getting watched at school and your job as a friend is to wait until she brings it up with you and let her talk without offering parenting advice.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:44

I always capitalise my threads. It wasn't solely the word "nightmare" that was capitalised. Perhaps it was distasteful and a bit forward. Like I said, I'm just concerned.

OP posts:
RiverTam · 15/08/2014 11:44

Just. Stop. Socialising. Your. Sons. Together.

Christ, how many times does it need to be said?????

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:45

Okay sorry for any offence meant toward anyone. I can be very forward sometimes and I apologise for that. My concern is for my DS, her DS and my dear friend. Thanks

OP posts:
Haffdonga · 15/08/2014 11:47

What are you asking?

  • whether to tell your friend your worries about her ds?
  • whether to distance yourself from her for the sake of your ds?
  • whether her ds has a diagnosable condition?

PP have all assumed you are asking one or other of these questions but you don't like the answers and you haven't made it clear what you want to know.

You ask if anyone else has been in your position and yes I have. A very similar situation - my friend's ds is about 6 months younger than mine. I was aware that her ds's behaviour was very different from my own ds's but chose not to point it out. She also explained away a lot of her ds's delayed development and challenging behaviour with a number of reasons (e.g. she felt didn't walk until more than 2yo because he was tall. He didn't play imaginatively because he was good at science.) My choice was not to point anything out but to listen to her worries as she expressed them. Eventually, when her son was quite a lot older she mentioned that he was autistic as if we'd both always been aware. I'm glad it was her own discoveries and interractions with nursery school and health services that lead to this realisation and not my interference.

gamerchick · 15/08/2014 11:48

Keep your kids apart and see her socially. I'm lucky as my friends are awesome with my son but I go and see them without him and they come here without their younger ones. Works lovely for everybody.

Put your desires for perfect buddies to one side and just have a friendship with your friend.

JennyOnTheBlocks · 15/08/2014 11:49

Do you really understand why some of us are really offended/hurt/shocked by your initial words and attitude though?

Our children often can't help the way they react, they get frustrated/don't understand that what they are doing is not acceptable by others.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:51

haffdonga thats exactly my problem. I've been told to not let them play together, but that's not resolving anything. I cant bring up the situation because it's a touchy subject. I need to broach things cautiously without risking my friendship because there may be issues here but at the same time, it's not my job to point anything out in case i upset her. She doesnt have any family nearby, i often treat the kids and play silly with both of them. I am just not sure how to go about it all.

OP posts:
gamerchick · 15/08/2014 11:53

You don't. Even if he had a diagnosis of something it won't make everything as you want them.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:54

jennyontheblocks i've already apologised. If it upsets you that much then dont comment. Kids get frustrated but isn't acceptable to hit other children. At least that's what I've taught my DS. I'm not having him be used as a punchbag and turn a bline eye just to apease the situation. Whatever issues he may have, need to be brought to light before any steps can be taken. For now, I can't condone him hitting my son in a really harmful way.

OP posts:
CultureSucksDownWords · 15/08/2014 11:56

But can't resolve this situation. It really isn't possible for you to do so. The child's parents are responsible for his upbringing plus any other professionals such as the nursery staff, not you.

The short term issues can be resolved by reducing the amount of time your children play together. Then you can gently try to suggest approaches that might help your friend as per the list of things I mentioned before. This will be very tricky to raise carefully with your friend as many people would struggle with having their parenting criticised. Particularly if it isn't asked for.

Frusso · 15/08/2014 11:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:57

I will support my friend and her DS 100% but I need to remove my DS from the situation, at least for now.

OP posts:
gamerchick · 15/08/2014 11:57

So keep them apart.. its your job to protect your son but if you bring this up with her you risk losing her as a friend. But that's your call.

Haffdonga · 15/08/2014 11:57

I think you'll find the 'problem' will resolve itself when your ds starts school. You can meet df and her son when your ds is at school. Your ds will start making his own school friends whether you like them or not and the option for your boys to spend much time together will lessen.

StevesBollockAnalogy · 15/08/2014 11:58

Ems I don't understand why the two boys not playing together doesn't resolve anything? Doesn't it exactly solve your problem, you don't want your son to be a "punchbag". If he's not there, he won't be, and you can continue your friendship? You can't MAKE anyone be friends with anyone, even 3/4 year olds.
What's still unresolved?

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:59

Frusso please inbox me to talk propely. Thank you everyone. I am now removing the thread!

OP posts:
MumBoots · 15/08/2014 12:00

You sound incredibly over involved in this child's development. Its quite odd.

If you what you really want is to see this woman without her 'nightmare' child, develop a different friendship with her based around child-free coffee/drinks meet ups etc. you dint need our permission.

But dont waste another moment analysing and berating her four year old. Its quite mean.

JennyOnTheBlocks · 15/08/2014 12:02

ah right, we just need to teach our kids how to be like yours then [hhm]

it's really not that easy, you know? and no you don't understand, no matter how many times you apologise. i'm still saddened by your posts btw

and again, no one is saying you should turn a blind eye to what happens to your DS, but IF there are underlying issues, you bringing them up to your friend in relation to how he interacts with your DS is not the way to address them.

AugustaGloop · 15/08/2014 12:02

You say keeping them apart does not resolve the situation. It depends what you mean by the situation. It does resolve the situation for your DS who no longer gets hit. it gives you a way to maintain your friendship with your friend (seeing her without DC) without offending her with comments about her DS. So from the point of view of your DS and your friendship (which are your concerns) there is a resolution. Clearly it does not resolve the DS's behaviour generally, but that is not your concern to resolve and I do not think you can really have thought that you would find an answer to that on here. Even a diagnosis would not resolve this, it would just explain it.

KittiesInsane · 15/08/2014 12:03

I recommend the useful phrase 'They seem to be rubbing each other up a bit the wrong way at the moment.'

DS's difficult relationship with another little boy at age 4 (who sounded very like the one you describe) had to be handled by lots of space literal space, parks and the like on playdates so neither child got angsty about toys, rules, possessions etc, and could go home when they'd had enough.

Borka · 15/08/2014 12:03

Why are you ignoring everyone saying that you shouldn't tell your friend what you think about her son's behaviour? She may have her own concerns but not want to discuss them with you.

SystemId · 15/08/2014 12:06

I think Kitties suggestion is really tactful and kind