HELP ADVICE NEEDED OVER DS NIGHTMARE FRIEND

[Emskiness]

Hi, this is a LONG thread so please read, help me, don't judge and give me any advice where possible, thanks.

I met another woman through my DS starting nursery school. Me and her really hit it off, and I love her to bits, she's like my best friend, we have a lot of chemistry and we are going away together for a few days for her 30th. Honestly, we are like sisters. The issue, however, lies with her son. At first, her DS would just begin to grate on me, now I genuinely feel concerned about the situation. He is only about 3/4 months younger than my DS who is now 4 (so in 6 weeks her DS will be 4) but there are a lot of problems I have begun to notice with him. Let me also tell you, I am not blowing my own trumpet here, but I am a very good mum. I love kids, and act childlike myself sometimes just to make them smile, so it's not as if I've developed an instant dislike for her DS. Anyway, here are a few things I'd like to point out, to anyone with experience in this situation, about the experience I have constantly with her DS and perhaps someone can shed some light:

A) Speech - I have noticed for a 4-year-old his speech is behind. It's not so much that he doesn't have a wide vocabulary, it's more how he vocalises things. He often misplaces vowels and doesn't speak with definition. The best way I can describe it is, he doesn't curl his tongue round the correct words and often mis-pronunciates. His speech is also long and drawn out almost like a drawl, and almost as though every sentence he makes has a question sound at the end. Example:

Bye-bee wear jarmaaaasss (baby wears pyjamas)

Yaaahhhh (instead of yes or yeah)

I burn my haaaaaandddd onnnnn coooookaaaaaahhhh (I burnt my hand on the cooker)

Sometimes it is hard to define what he is saying but his words are very stretched out and prolonged. So he IS saying sentences. And it's nothing to do with having an accent or anything.

B) Constant Shrill Scream - Whenever you try and be nice to him or ask him something he always responds with a NO!! (in a high-pitched, shrill voice). Followed by inaudible mumbling. Sometimes this can be hard to bear when you take the kids to a soft playcentre, and his screams can reach fever-pitch. This isn't followed by tantrums of throwing himself on the floor and kicking or screaming, this is the way he answers things. Instead of just a "No, I don't want that!" this isn't an occassional thing, this is pretty much how he's wired.

C) Controlling and Bossy - He is very controlling of my DS and I don't like it. I have tried my very best to reason with him and have lots of patience, treated them both fairly and gave him the same amount of affection and play towards him as I have my own DS. But he is very domineering. When he comes to my house to play, he stomps upstairs, ransacks my DS' toys and stomps all over them, pulls down his Fireman tent and screams in his face. Even when my DS is being nice and saying "Why? I just want to play with you?" which he will then receive a sharp, shrill "No!!" in response. He won't let my DS play with his own toys, and forces him to play with toys or do things he doesn't want to do, which is very upsetting to see.

D) Destructive and Violent - many times he has shoved, hit and even bitten my DS. He backhaded him yesterday, without even looking at him, almost as an impulse. He went into the yard, and pulled out all the leaves, he stomped all over the ants to which my DS got upset because he loves nature and animals, and he's just basically very destructive, banging toys together, throwing them, stomping round.

E) Lack of empathy/compassion - there are instances he can be nice when he is excited about something i.e. getting a new toy for example, but he lacks the kind of compassion 4-year-olds generally have. He will stomp on insects without consideration or do things without thinking about his actions or the consequences. And doesn't consider people's feelings either. By age 4, kids are starting to understand feelings and emotions and how they can affect people and the world around them.

F) Lack of maturity - this is a weird one I know, as kids can't necessarily be mature at this age but they do have an increased sense of the world around them, the actions they take and even the ways in which they converse. I find, for his age, her DS appears to be somewhat more like a 2-year-old than a 4-year-old.

G) Repeats words - although her DS appears to says things that come to his mind, which he does, he tends to repeat many things that have already been said. When my DS expresses joy or excitement about something and follows with a statment, her DS will repeat quite clearly what my DS has said, but struggles to manifest or initiate conversations or certain words himself.

H) Unusual Affection toward Baby - I have a baby girl who is 6 months old and he is very adoring of her. In fact, I find him more gentle and sweet toward her than anyone else. He will vey often kiss her and stroke her head and go "Arrrrr little Bye-beeeeee" (Arrrr little baby)

I) He is very hyperactive - now, let me make it clear. Kids can be hyped, especially if they've been couped up, and as soon as they are outside they are bursting with energy and won't keep still. This is not unusual. However, my DS will sit for long periods doing floor puzzles, watching a cartoon or colouring or drawing. Her DS with scribble aggressively and won't keep still sometimes. It's hard to throw this one if there I suppose because it can vary from child to child but just thought I would add it as a key point.

I know you might look at this and think I'm just being very harsh and there must be some good that he does, but if I'm being honest, he's very much hard work. And I so longed for him and my DS to be good little play buddies. Now, I'm starting to wonder if there are behavioural issues here or something. My DS has never lashed out at him and has been very patient with him, but I can see the frustration building in him, and I feel like I can't have him around my DS anymore. On occassion my DS has also said "I don't like XXX I don't want to play with him anymore. He just hits me, and shouts NO!" I have got to be honest, I am glad my DS will also be in the year ahead so they won't be in the same class come September (as my DS he starts Reception).

This is a very tough situation for me, as she's my best friend, but my DS has to come first. And if he's miserable, and I struggle to be around him myself, then I can't have them playing together. I need to tell my friend that I think there is honestly an issue there but it's a very touchy subject as parents don't often like to admit there is something going on with their child. I find her at her wits end many many times but she just makes excuses like "Oh, he's just too independent and won't let other people do stuff for him" or "Oh, he's just fed-up because it's the summer holidays".

I don't know if she's in denial but I feel like things just can't go on like this until she does something. I care about her and her DS very much and will support her 100% but until a resolution happens, I don't want to see my DS being used as an emotional punchbag.

Please advise on what to do and what to say. And what you think the issue may be. Thank you!

Surely (if you are in England/Wales) your DS will be starting school this year while hers will be in the academic year below? They'll naturally drift apart at that point and your DS will be exhausted by the end of the school week so planning in organised meetups then would probably be unwise (and he's going to want to play with his new friends anyway). There's no need for you to do anything in particular to "remove" your DS because circumstances will naturally do that for you.

None of that works if you're in Scotland, of course.

I could write a list of similar concerns about my own 4 year old son's behaviour, I am well aware of the issues that he is facing as he starts school and have been seeking help and advice from various professionals (school, health visitor, SALT etc). The thought that a friend of mine could be writing a post like yours, sounding so superior, is truly upsetting. My only advice, since you asked, is to try and put yourself in her shoes. If your list above is accurate, it's unlikely that she hasn't noticed the differences between your DC too. Then you can decide whether to pursue the friendship and offer support or not. You cannot change the child's behaviour.

If your son isn't happy then limit the time you see your friend. And if his life is being made a misery by bullying I would just limit the time and if you invite them to your house stay in the same room. There isn't an easy answer but I don't see why a child should be subject to bullying whatever the circumstances.

Thanks, System.

Friend's DS is still a friend, and a very kind and thoughtful young man he's become. Funnily enough it was my own child (quiet, rule-bound, bright) who turned out to be autistic.

FFS.

I've been told to not let them play together, but that's not resolving anything.

You say you're upset about how he treats your child. If your children are not together, it effectively solves that problem. How in blue blazes does that NOT resolve it?!?!?

Do NOT address your concerns over her child's "development" problems, as you perceive them. It may be that she is already aware of it, has possibly even taken him in and is pursuing medical help and doesn't want to discuss it with you. Believe it or not, some of us parents actually went a fair bit of the assessment and appointments with medical professionals without discussing it with friends and family. And don't go on about "oh, if she was doing that, I'd know" nonsense, because LOADS of people in RL didn't know when we took ds1 in for assessments, as I only discussed it online in the SNs forum here and with the school senco and teacher, who are not allowed to discuss it with other parents.

I imagine school/nursery will pick up on behavioural or developmental issues and will speak to her about it, if it applies.

There is NO WAY that you can speak to her about it without appearing to compare him to your son, and it will make you look like a snotty cow (trust me, been there, and however well meaning the other parent was, all I could hear was them basically saying "my child is perfect, but something is WRONG with yours!"). Don't do it.

Oh, and you could be just wrong anyway, you know. He may just be a bit immature, which will most likely improve a bit when he goes to nursery. He's only 3, that's quite young you know.

I really hope the OP is still reading and hopefully taking on board.. there's really good advice on this thread.

I hope that mnhq don't delete the thread, because I think there is a lot of wisdom on here about what to do in situations similar to the ops.

"I am not blowing my own trumpet here, but I am a very good mum". I think this comment might have got people's backs up as well as the long winded segments of each difficulty you have with this child.

Some children at 4 will sit down for ages and draw. I knew a boy who was like a whirlwind but at 3 would sit down and draw the most amazing pictures. Others, girls and boys, just not interested in the drawing but in socialising and playing with others.

All children develop at different rates. Boys especially often develop later than girls. I assume you have training in child development to be able to make such harsh comments about this other child's development. Amazingly a lot of doctors cannot see difficulties with small children.

Like others have said you don't have to let your perfect child be around this other "nightmare child" so meet up with the mum without the dc.

Emskiness - if you feel you still have to have the occasional visit from this child, then you would be perfectly entitled to put some rules in place. For example, the boys don't go upstairs to play - they stay downstairs where you can keep an eye on them, and intervene if this other child hurts yours, or is unkind. This might mean fetching some toys downstairs beforehand, and taking them back up afterwards, but it will reduce the risk of toys being broken, and you will also be able to keep any precious toys safe upstairs.

If he's in your house, you do have the right to set some limits - and to stop him if he steps over the line (if he heads off upstairs when you have told him 'no', for example).

This will resolve itself. Your ds will make new friends at school, and so will this other lad, when he starts - and because they are in different years, they will develop different friendship groups - but you and his mum will be able to meet up for coffee when both boys are in school. And if the other boy goes to playschool/preschool, you could do that now.

You might need to brace yourself to say 'no' to some playdates, but it sounds like you have decided that this is necessary. And as others have said, keeping them apart does solve a lot of the problems - the destruction of your ds's toys, the nastiness towards him.

You mentioned his affection towards your baby - for me, that was a ray of light in your description of him - his lovingness towards a baby. I would see that as a positive thing.

With regards to talking to his mum about his behaviour and development - I wouldn't. Soon enough he will be in school, and the teachers will be able to take on that task. Of course, if she raises the subject, you can be honest with her - kind, but honest - and you can be there to support her if he does need a diagnosis and special help.

Okay I'm getting a bit tired of the "perfect" child being bandied around. I never oncer said, or insinuated my DS is the perfect child. And there is nothing wrong with praising myself as a mother, I have no idea why that would bother people? No child or mother is perfect. We all have flaws, make mistakes, throw tantrums etc. A lot of the issues I raised, were concerns she also raised herself. I didn't want to comment on what she said, so I threw some of her concerns as well as my own observations on here, to draw feedback, as it's difficult to be honest to her face.

Sometimes honesty is also the best policy. I don't want to have to hide behind lies when I know deep down that her DS has anger/behaviourial issues. Despite what people say, I'm sorry but this isn't typical behaviour for a child approaching 4.

With respect, it is our duty as mothers and fathers, to do our best for our children, the environment they're in and to teach them to grow up with manners and respect. It is not acceptable for children to hit other children whether they have a condition or not, and that child should be removed from said situation or the parent should say something.

My older sister has very severe autism, and though she couldn't help lashing out at times, she had to have explained to her why she was naughty and be removed from the situation. I also cared for my sister and helped her a lot, often joking about with her friends and dancing with them even with them having disabilites, I didn't make them feel like they did because they don't want to feel like they have. So I'm not a snob at all. In fact, I see a lot of warning signs in children because of my experiences.

In hindsight the word "nightmare" I probably should've ommitted perhaps, but no real offence was meant here.

If my child is naughty or being wild (he's never lashed out ever btw) I will tell him off and give him a warning before following through with a punishment. It annoys me that other parents don't do the same to their children (I'm not just talking about my friend here) when said situations arise, and my DS becomes the victim of an attack. All parents should punish their children appropriately and explain why they were punished (yes including me!)

A 7-year-old boy threw sand in my child's eyes right in front of his parents and they didn't do anything. He tried to do it again so I told him off, and then he backed off. If parents don't discipline their children or take action for problems or concerns they have, then it can affect other children, and I feel like this is the case with my child. It is not about me being superior, disliking the child, or allowing him to have unruly behaviour because it's "just his age".

Perhaps the real serious issues should be dealt with and addressed by the mother, and if people are continually upset over my thread, then I have apologised but I can't change how I feel about the situation. I will remove my DS from the situation and follow advice. I appreciate all the responses and will definitely take action on this, and have a word with his mum about it as well.

Thanks :)

It annoys me that other parents don't do the same to their children (I'm not just talking about my friend here) when said situations arise, and my DS becomes the victim of an attack.

And now you're criticising her parenting as well. Oh you're a charming friend.

In fact, I see a lot of warning signs in children because of my experiences.

Just because your sister has autism, that does not make you an expert. Not in any way at all.

I don't want to have to hide behind lies when I know deep down that her DS has anger/behaviourial issues. Despite what people say, I'm sorry but this isn't typical behaviour for a child approaching 4.

And you got your medical degree in developmental paediatrics where?? Bollocks. You have no idea whatsoever if this child has anger or behavioural issues.

You, on the other hand, have a right case of "I'm always right, I'm going to post a question to which I really don't want an answer, just want everyone to agree that my child is wonderful, I'm a brilliant mum, and her child is a nightmare." Yep. Armchair diagnosis. But I know "deep down" it's right.

Yes, I am criticising her parenting. If she doesn't discipline him when he hits my child, this is wrong. Are you saying that this is right then? I grew up around a lot of disabled people, and I don't claim to be an expert just that I have experiences on the the matter, I never said I was an expert but just that I have seen certain traits children and adults can have though I've not ONCE claimed to diagnose this child with autism at all?!

And if you read my post properly you would see I claimed not to be a perfect mum. No I don't have a medical degree in children. A child who is consitently angry and volatile has to have issues here especially when he won't listen to his mum or anyone else. If everyone honestly thinks a consistently volatile and angry child has no underlying issues and it's normal behaviour then maybe I'm just way off the mark with everything.

Man if you display this attitude when pulling your friend I can see someone giving you a wide berth before long

You need to be there to support her, Emskiness. If you tackle this head-on, you risk a big falling-out that will mean you can't support her any more.

You know, I spent time earlier trying to offer constructive advice - and I didn't say any 'perfect child' stuff - but it feels as if you have completely ignored what I took the time to offer.

Sorry but it's difficult for me to read all the posts, as more and more just pop up, so please don't think I'm intentionally ignoring you I'm not. I will offer support, I've mentioned this several times, I don't know how else to express that :/

This started with you asking for "advice on what to do and what to say.". Seems to have moved on to "criticising her parenting". If it's a "tough situation" for you as mentioned in the OP, why not listen to the advice given - it's not nice to condemn your friend and her son for not behaving as you want them to.

What does OP mean btw?

Op=original post

Ems this thread has gone silly!

sorry original poster

Original poster which is you on this thread.

Okay thanks FreyaW2014 :)