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HELP ADVICE NEEDED OVER DS NIGHTMARE FRIEND

123 replies

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 10:40

Hi, this is a LONG thread so please read, help me, don't judge and give me any advice where possible, thanks.

I met another woman through my DS starting nursery school. Me and her really hit it off, and I love her to bits, she's like my best friend, we have a lot of chemistry and we are going away together for a few days for her 30th. Honestly, we are like sisters. The issue, however, lies with her son. At first, her DS would just begin to grate on me, now I genuinely feel concerned about the situation. He is only about 3/4 months younger than my DS who is now 4 (so in 6 weeks her DS will be 4) but there are a lot of problems I have begun to notice with him. Let me also tell you, I am not blowing my own trumpet here, but I am a very good mum. I love kids, and act childlike myself sometimes just to make them smile, so it's not as if I've developed an instant dislike for her DS. Anyway, here are a few things I'd like to point out, to anyone with experience in this situation, about the experience I have constantly with her DS and perhaps someone can shed some light:

A) Speech - I have noticed for a 4-year-old his speech is behind. It's not so much that he doesn't have a wide vocabulary, it's more how he vocalises things. He often misplaces vowels and doesn't speak with definition. The best way I can describe it is, he doesn't curl his tongue round the correct words and often mis-pronunciates. His speech is also long and drawn out almost like a drawl, and almost as though every sentence he makes has a question sound at the end. Example:

Bye-bee wear jarmaaaasss (baby wears pyjamas)

Yaaahhhh (instead of yes or yeah)

I burn my haaaaaandddd onnnnn coooookaaaaaahhhh (I burnt my hand on the cooker)

Sometimes it is hard to define what he is saying but his words are very stretched out and prolonged. So he IS saying sentences. And it's nothing to do with having an accent or anything.

B) Constant Shrill Scream - Whenever you try and be nice to him or ask him something he always responds with a NO!! (in a high-pitched, shrill voice). Followed by inaudible mumbling. Sometimes this can be hard to bear when you take the kids to a soft playcentre, and his screams can reach fever-pitch. This isn't followed by tantrums of throwing himself on the floor and kicking or screaming, this is the way he answers things. Instead of just a "No, I don't want that!" this isn't an occassional thing, this is pretty much how he's wired.

C) Controlling and Bossy - He is very controlling of my DS and I don't like it. I have tried my very best to reason with him and have lots of patience, treated them both fairly and gave him the same amount of affection and play towards him as I have my own DS. But he is very domineering. When he comes to my house to play, he stomps upstairs, ransacks my DS' toys and stomps all over them, pulls down his Fireman tent and screams in his face. Even when my DS is being nice and saying "Why? I just want to play with you?" which he will then receive a sharp, shrill "No!!" in response. He won't let my DS play with his own toys, and forces him to play with toys or do things he doesn't want to do, which is very upsetting to see.

D) Destructive and Violent - many times he has shoved, hit and even bitten my DS. He backhaded him yesterday, without even looking at him, almost as an impulse. He went into the yard, and pulled out all the leaves, he stomped all over the ants to which my DS got upset because he loves nature and animals, and he's just basically very destructive, banging toys together, throwing them, stomping round.

E) Lack of empathy/compassion - there are instances he can be nice when he is excited about something i.e. getting a new toy for example, but he lacks the kind of compassion 4-year-olds generally have. He will stomp on insects without consideration or do things without thinking about his actions or the consequences. And doesn't consider people's feelings either. By age 4, kids are starting to understand feelings and emotions and how they can affect people and the world around them.

F) Lack of maturity - this is a weird one I know, as kids can't necessarily be mature at this age but they do have an increased sense of the world around them, the actions they take and even the ways in which they converse. I find, for his age, her DS appears to be somewhat more like a 2-year-old than a 4-year-old.

G) Repeats words - although her DS appears to says things that come to his mind, which he does, he tends to repeat many things that have already been said. When my DS expresses joy or excitement about something and follows with a statment, her DS will repeat quite clearly what my DS has said, but struggles to manifest or initiate conversations or certain words himself.

H) Unusual Affection toward Baby - I have a baby girl who is 6 months old and he is very adoring of her. In fact, I find him more gentle and sweet toward her than anyone else. He will vey often kiss her and stroke her head and go "Arrrrr little Bye-beeeeee" (Arrrr little baby)

I) He is very hyperactive - now, let me make it clear. Kids can be hyped, especially if they've been couped up, and as soon as they are outside they are bursting with energy and won't keep still. This is not unusual. However, my DS will sit for long periods doing floor puzzles, watching a cartoon or colouring or drawing. Her DS with scribble aggressively and won't keep still sometimes. It's hard to throw this one if there I suppose because it can vary from child to child but just thought I would add it as a key point.

I know you might look at this and think I'm just being very harsh and there must be some good that he does, but if I'm being honest, he's very much hard work. And I so longed for him and my DS to be good little play buddies. Now, I'm starting to wonder if there are behavioural issues here or something. My DS has never lashed out at him and has been very patient with him, but I can see the frustration building in him, and I feel like I can't have him around my DS anymore. On occassion my DS has also said "I don't like XXX I don't want to play with him anymore. He just hits me, and shouts NO!" I have got to be honest, I am glad my DS will also be in the year ahead so they won't be in the same class come September (as my DS he starts Reception).

This is a very tough situation for me, as she's my best friend, but my DS has to come first. And if he's miserable, and I struggle to be around him myself, then I can't have them playing together. I need to tell my friend that I think there is honestly an issue there but it's a very touchy subject as parents don't often like to admit there is something going on with their child. I find her at her wits end many many times but she just makes excuses like "Oh, he's just too independent and won't let other people do stuff for him" or "Oh, he's just fed-up because it's the summer holidays".

I don't know if she's in denial but I feel like things just can't go on like this until she does something. I care about her and her DS very much and will support her 100% but until a resolution happens, I don't want to see my DS being used as an emotional punchbag.

Please advise on what to do and what to say. And what you think the issue may be. Thank you!

OP posts:
Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:17

JennoyOnTheBlocks he is a nightmare to be around and he doesn't have a diagnosed condition. If he did, I wouldn't be seeking advice. And I don't know if he has underlying issues.I care very much for her DS but I care about my own son more. Sorry if that rubs people up the wrong way.

OP posts:
RiverTam · 15/08/2014 11:17

they don't like each other, so don't arrange playdates for them, see your friend (his mum) by yourself instead. Or is she insistent that your socialising always involves the children?

He may well have behavioural/developmental problems but if he's in nursery he will be being observed pretty closely, along with all the other children, by professionals who may or may not feel there is an issue.

Of course you must keep your child safe and if he was said he doesn't like him and doesn't want to play with him then don't make him.

I think you have invested a lot in the friendship with the mum (fair enough) and wanted that to continue through with the children, but you can't force these things. At 4 they do start making their own friends and have likes and dislikes of their own.

CultureSucksDownWords · 15/08/2014 11:17

Emskiness, I don't think you have understood the advice that you've been given here.

No one is saying that you have to be ok with this child's behaviour. In fact, quite the opposite. No one is saying your child has to be bullied. If a child is behaving that way to your DS then stop exposing your DS to that child. The fact that the child is the DS of your good friend is an unfortunate side issue.

BiscuitMillionaire · 15/08/2014 11:19

I think the posters having a go at you are talking bollocks. I get the impression you've tried really hard to be kind to your friend's DS. The issue is that you're such good friends with the mum that you've got your heart set on your DSs being best friends too - and it obviously ain't gonna happen. I think the shrieking and repeating words do sound like possible markers of something, but you can't get involved in diagnosing him, that's overstepping the mark. The two boys going into separate years at school will be your saviour, as your DS will naturally make other friends. You just have to let go of needing them to be friends.

DownByTheRiverside · 15/08/2014 11:19

'Many people on here don't get how volatile this kid actually is. I've been around lots of children, and I've never came across anything like him.'

You have no idea who is posting on this thread. Most of us do get it, for a myriad of different reasons.

Floralnomad · 15/08/2014 11:21

He is not 4 ,he is 3 ,your DS is at least 3 months older and prepared for starting school ,I'm sure by this time next year when this little boy is getting ready to start school he will be a different child ( I hope) . In the meantime your DS will be moving on with new friends from school and you can stay friends with your friend without always having the DC around .

Marcipex · 15/08/2014 11:24

I expect the nursery staff are observing and monitoring his behaviour, but they won't discuss it with you.

I don't think you are unkind and judgemental. It sounds to me as if you've spent a lot of time with this child and your concerns are genuine.

However, there isn't anything you can do except continue to be friendly with his mum. If your DS is asking not to play with him, you have to respect that. As he's only 4, he'll probably say it to their faces at some point if you make them play together. That would be more difficult.

Your DS will make different friends next term, as you already know. He'll be busy and he'll be tired after school. Less playing together will happen naturally.

freyaW2014 · 15/08/2014 11:24

I don't see a problem with your post, you are trying to get some advice, it's a little wordy but I suspect you're worried about how you will come across? Everyone parents differently and sometimes kids can be a nightmare, especially when they hurt your own child!
I can see you do care about your friend and her son but don't know what to do for the best. Some people would just walk away rather than admit there's a problem.
I didn't do that either and tried to talk to my friend. I thought she was worth fighting for even though her dc's behaviour was impacting my dd. At the end of the day like you say your ds comes first but I do feel for you in this situation Flowers

ClashCityRocker · 15/08/2014 11:24

To be honest, my initial thought was that your post sounds like a heck of a lot of four year olds. There could be other issues - no-one on an Internet forum is going to know if this is the case or not.

I think you should concern yourself only with those issues that directly pertain to your son; tell your friend that your son doesn't want to play with him for xyz reasons - and of course you don't want your son to be bullied and hit by him and quite rightly shouldn't put up with it.

The rest of the list - in particular the speech/language/general interaction/emotional maturity i would leave unless your friend specifically mentions concerns. Tbh, you sound so caught up in comparing your DS favourably to your friends that you are being hyper-critical. At four, there is such a broad range of what is 'normal'. They develop at such different rates, especially emotionally and if your friend isn't concerned, I don't think it's up to you to point it out to her - certainly not at this stage.

AugustaGloop · 15/08/2014 11:25

I think you should do the following:

  1. meet up without DC at least for a while. With your Ds starting school and hers still at nursery I imagine it should be fairly easy to manage this without it appearing odd and without even needing to say you are deliberately keeping them apart. Either meet in the evening or (if you are both not WOH) while he is at school. If she suggests meeting after school with DC I think you will legitimately be able to say that your DS is very tired after starting school so you do not want to do after school playdates for a while.
  1. Do not mention your concerns about her DS's development, but if she says anything make clear you are there to help and support her.
  1. You can, however, legitimately pick up on his behaviour towards your son if they do meet up occasionally - i.e. come at it from the angle of your son rather than concerns about hers. If she does not intervene when her DS hits your son, then tell her to do so or do it yourself. if that does not work, be more open that you need to keep them apart for a while as they are not getting on.
  1. I suspect it will get easier over time - as your son develops his own friends at school there will be less expectation that he should be friends with your friends' DCs, particularly if this DC is in a different year. Also, if he does have SN, this is also likely to be picked up when he starts school.
JennyOnTheBlocks · 15/08/2014 11:25

so Now, I'm starting to wonder if there are behavioural issues here or something. and I need to tell my friend that I think there is honestly an issue there but it's a very touchy subject as parents don't often like to admit there is something going on with their child isn't you assuming he has an underlying condition then?

OKAAAYYY

hoboken · 15/08/2014 11:25

EMS,

I would take the boys out to play - the park, indoor playground etc to avoid the situation in the house. Otherwise, have adult outings with your friend for wine, a meal, coffee or whatever.

You needn't end your friendship with the other woman, just try to avoid situations which concern you. Your son's playmate group will extend when he is in school and you and she may drift apart anyway.

I feel for the little chap and his mother though. She may have this reaction from other mothers and need support

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 15/08/2014 11:25

Some children are difficult to be around. Could be because of additional needs that aren't yet diagnosed, could be dodgy parenting or could just be an annoying stage in his personality development. It's very hard when your child just behaves better and can't understand why other child is being mean/whatever. I've had this with my nephew. He's emotionally way behind my DS although only 6 months younger, aggressive, shrieks and screams when thwarted, generally quite a disturbed child. But I know why this is and it's not his fault. I do get how hard it is but you can't do anything about it, just limit the time they spend together.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:25

Thanks BiscuitMillionaire. I am actually at the end of my tether, and people seem to be offended by me saying that, but I do treat them both the same, so it's not as though I hate the kid. I don't get how the posters here would want me to dislike her kid, when I want more than anything for them to play and be nice together?

I don't dislike him, but he's tough to be around. I use the term nightmare even if my son is playing up. I'll say "oh he's being a nightmare" that's just slang. It's not meant to be offensive. I think people are reading too much into that. But even my friend seems to be like "what do i do?" so it's difficult for me to even answer that question. I don't really know myself. Having them play together is not going to reolve the issue as he is apparently like this all the time so....

OP posts:
MarkWrightsLonelyBraincell · 15/08/2014 11:27

Me me me me me. I hope your friend doesn't read this and recognise herself op.

CultureSucksDownWords · 15/08/2014 11:28

Who is saying that you have to dislike the child?

CultureSucksDownWords · 15/08/2014 11:31

And you can't force or engineer it so they will play together nicely and be best friends. You may just have to accept that they can't play together for a while.

If your friend is asking for help, then suggest she speaks to nursery, her health visitor, parenting courses at the local family centre, read popular books on behaviour etc etc. And/or point out that a consistent response helps with improving behaviour, plus rewarding good behaviour with praise.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:31

Some people mentioned earlier that I immediately disliked him which is not true at all. And it's not all me, me, me. I have genuine concerns. I may broach the subject that it may be best to not let them play for a while or just every so often. But I agree I am not doing a good thing here exposing my son to physical harm.

OP posts:
RiverTam · 15/08/2014 11:34

so don't see him, see your friend instead. They don't have to come as a package.

If you friend is asking your advice then point her in the direction of the nursery staff or her GP. Don't try to diagnose. Chances are they will reassure her that there's nothing to worry about, and from the point of view of your DC together, they don't get along - fine. Outdoor play if they have to see each other, but I would just arrange to see your friend alone for dinner or cinema or whatever.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:35

I am going to delete/remove this thread now as I just wanted some opinions, and I don't think it's right for it to be up here so I'm deleting it.

OP posts:
JennyOnTheBlocks · 15/08/2014 11:37

still can't see where anyone but you have used the term 'instant dislike'

and btw, it's ok to not really like a child, but you have to accept, as an adult, that is YOUR problem, not theirs

KatoPotato · 15/08/2014 11:37

I think some of the verbatim quotes might out you here... and they did nothing to add to your story.

H) Unusual Affection toward Baby still saddens me...

CultureSucksDownWords · 15/08/2014 11:38

I would just point out, Emskiness, that only 1 poster suggested that you disliked the child, and they said you had an "unnatural dislike" of the child. No one has said that you had an "immediate dislike" of the child.

Everyone else has given you lots of strategies for dealing with this, and pointed out that there is not a huge amount you can do to change this child as it has to come from his parents and other professionals involved with him.

Emskiness · 15/08/2014 11:40

JennyOnTheBlocks of course it is MY problem when my DS is being exposed to violence so that's a bit of a ridiculous thing to say. The affection thing was me trying to say he's very sweet toward my daughter but not sweet toward other people. Where my DS is affected, yes, it becomes my problem.

OP posts:
CultureSucksDownWords · 15/08/2014 11:40

Yes, what you described about his interactions with the baby are actually delightful and lovely. Nothing to be alarmed or worried about at all.