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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

My 4 year old misbehaving.

96 replies

YourShoesAreLovely · 14/07/2014 20:28

Really don't know where to start... But I am in desperate need of advice!

This has been going on for the past 2 weeks and a half now. The worst thing is that he is doing it in public, take today for an example I took him with me to Sainsburys to do the weekly shop, he picked up an expensive toy thinking I was going to buy it for him when I said no he went into a strop, arms crossed wouldn't move, I had to pull him to make him walk, when we got to the check out he thought it was okay to tell me to "f*k off" call me a "fking btch" then kick me, the sheer and utter embarrassment.

When we got home he decided to pour a whole litre of water on the floor, silly me for leaving the lid off whilst I took a phone call. I told him off and and sent him to his room, I went up and spoke to him and told him his behaviour isn't acceptable and as punishment I took away his iPad, a few minutes later he came into the living room and picked up of the clothes I had ironed and threw them on the floor.

This isn't the first incident that has happened we went to the park on the weekend he pushed a little girl down the slide and hurt her, her parents weren't to happy the same I wouldn't have been if it was the other way round. I also lost a good friend last week because my son pushed her son in the pond.

He does play up now and again but it has never last for this long. I don't think I can put him with him swearing and hitting me and not doing what he is told, for much longer.

He is always well behaved at school and he doesn't misbehave when his Dad is home, he will always go to sleep before he comes home so he won't get told off.

OP posts:

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Parietal · 14/07/2014 21:04

I know it is hard.

a few things to think of

is there anything stressing him? change to routine? anything out of the ordinary that he needs to deal with but can't articulate

can you up the attention when he is being good - more stories, chat, fun stuff

and at the same time, be tough on the bad behaviour - warning & then punishment. Anything that is destructive / hurts someone / swearing would get a 4 min time out on the naughty step in my house.

a 'house rules' page that the child helps write really helped my DDs. everyone contributes 2 rules (e.g. listen to mum & dad, play nicely ...) to the 'rules page' that goes on the fridge. It starts a non-stressed conversation about good behaviour and makes sure that the rules are clear & consistent.

Original poster

YourShoesAreLovely · 14/07/2014 21:19

Evening Parietal

I don't think anything is stressing him, there isn't been any change of routine. It's got to the stage where I think he is doing this because he thinks he can get away with it.

I always praise and reward good behaviour, when he is well behaved I take him out on the weekend, museum, aquarium, arcade etc. He always gets a story before bed and we do have conversations (he likes asking me questions) and I do play with him.

Trying my upmost best to be strict on his bad behaviour but now he is saying "I don't care" "I don't have to listen to you, you're just a girl" "don't look at me look that way" "I want to do it all by myself" "I don't like you" etc. I've tried naughty step/chairs plenty of times but he won't stay seated, just gets up and runs around.

I will try a behaviour chart with rules, I did before but lost track of things.

OP posts:

Didactylos · 14/07/2014 21:20

where did he learn the F off/F bitch insults?
someone must have modeled this as a behaviour for him, they dont start swearing spontaneously

CultureSucksDownWords · 14/07/2014 21:25

I'm also wondering about the swearing - it's pretty unusual for a 4 yr old to know and use that kind of swearing. Also the comment about not having to do what you say because you are "just a girl" - where does that sort of attitude come from?

Does your DH support you in front of your DS?

Original poster

YourShoesAreLovely · 14/07/2014 21:43

Evening Didactylos I don't swear, a lot of my friends have foul mouths.

CultureSucksDownWords He is at the age where he doesn't like girls and doesn't want to play with them. DH works, and by the time he gets in my son is in bed, if I say I am going to tell him my son will say something like "I don't care because Daddy loves me" but when DH does try speaking to him, he goes into crying fits or runs and hides.

OP posts:

CultureSucksDownWords · 14/07/2014 23:26

It's a bit of a side issue, but can you ask your friends not to swear like that in front of your 4 year old? Or not have your child around those particular friends.

Are you sure that nothing has happened in the last 2 to 3 weeks that might have upset him? It seems like quite an extreme change if he has previously been behaving generally well.

Either way, it sounds like he is well and truly pushing the boundaries to see what they are. He isn't doing it just because he can get away with it, it seems to me like he is really struggling to control his strong emotions such as anger e.g. not getting a toy he wanted, pushing the other children. When he misbehaves, try and think of it as him struggling with his emotions rather than simply being naughty.

It also sounds like he is seeking your attention e.g. pouring the water whilst you were on the phone, choosing to come down stairs and throw his clothes. Can you give him lots of your attention, really focus on interacting with him? That would give you lots of opportunity for praise - try to specifically describe the good behaviour that you are praising. At the same time, you need to be clear with him what the consequences will be for poor behaviour. Then follow through calmly if he pushes the boundaries. It will help you deal with it if you have suitable consequences in mind before he misbehaves.

If he says things like "I don't care", you can respond calmly with something like "that's ok, you don't have to care right now, but xyz is going to happen anyway", or just "that's fine, but xyz is going to happen anyway". Another approach is to name the emotion he is feeling e.g. "I know you are angry, but xyz is going to happen anyway", "I know you are frustrated, but..." and so on.

I wouldn't recommend the strategy of telling him you'll speak to your DH about his behaviour. It undermines your own authority and reinforces the idea that only your DH has to be regarded seriously. Your DH should just deal with any poor behaviour that he sees for himself.

Original poster

YourShoesAreLovely · 14/07/2014 23:45

Culture I am forever asking them not to swear in front of him, but they can't help it. Nothing has happened in the past 2-3 weeks. I do give him lots of attention I try and involve him in everything I am doing, I encourage him to help me cook, we clean up together, he watches "come dine with me" & "four weddings" he likes to help me wash my hair, when I tell him no he gets very upset so I have to let him.

I am going to try those strategies, I told DH what happened today he said "you should have slapped him so hard that he'd wet himself, then he won't do it again" I'd never hit him I don't believe in smacking.

OP posts:

Didactylos · 15/07/2014 01:46

sounds as though you and DH have very different ideas of appropriate punishment and maybe arent on the same page if DS is terrified of a row from DH but gives you such grief,

also - totally agree with Culture - you have to discipline him as his mother for any behaviour unacceptable to you: you cant wait for DH to come home and threaten him as the big bogey man. Otherwise you are just underscoring what hes learnt 'youre just a girl' you arent the boss of me etc, as well as making the DH/DS relationship fraught and fearful

It sounds as though hes doing a 'push the boundaries stage'. My ds certainly has occasional ' i hate you' and hitting out moments, usually hes frustrated and out of control of things- its not malice,but inability to deal with what he is feeling.
Never been able to keep to the naughty step/chair here either - we put him in his room, on the bed and leave, (shut the door) until he has calmed down, then we sort it out.

NickiFury · 15/07/2014 02:03

"Should have smacked him so hard he wet himself"

Are you serious? I have deep concerns about a person who would even think up something like that, let alone recommend it be carried out. He's FOUR!!!

Tell your foul mouthed friends that if they can't stop swearing round your child then they can't come round.

Other than that I am at a loss except that it's quite clear that your child is modelling the behaviour of the adults around him.

if this is even true

Original poster

YourShoesAreLovely · 15/07/2014 05:48

NickiFury I'm sorry what do you mean by "if this is even true"?

OP posts:

Blueuggboots · 15/07/2014 06:45

Whilst I appreciate that children go through the "pushing the boundaries" stage, a 4 year old saying "fuck off bitch" is not normal. Do you friends speak to you like that?
Why does he watch "come done with me" and "four weddings"? Surely children's programmes would be more appropriate?
says the woman whose son has just drawn all over her car whilst she was mowing the lawn

Original poster

YourShoesAreLovely · 15/07/2014 06:48

Blueuggboots One of my friends had an argument with a lady in the car not so long ago. Speaking of those programs, they are the programs I like to watch and he sits and watches them with me, the same way I watch cartoons with him.

OP posts:

Figster · 15/07/2014 07:03

Seriously that language is outrageous it's bad enough he knows those words let alone uses them in context. You really need to stamp that out from him and around him.

Also 4yo do not need iPads so take that away and only allow limited supervised use.

You and your dh need to put on a united front be consistent

Original poster

YourShoesAreLovely · 15/07/2014 07:08

Good morning Figster
I am not going to let people with foul mouths around him anymore. I thought it was essential for every child to own an iPad?

OP posts:

Didactylos · 15/07/2014 11:29

you sound a bit put upon from every angle?

you cant stop your friends from swearing around him
you cant discipline him so refer it to your husband
sound as though your ideas of discipline are poles apart - I would never hit him vs smack him so hard
you cant say no/take away Ipad for fear of a tantrum
You treat him like a friend (involve him in everything, watching your programs etc) rather than a kid (by all means involve him but age appropriate stuff)

Ssit down with your DH - need to have consistent rules between you. And then grow a backbone and start asserting yourself around your friends and your 4 year old.

combust22 · 15/07/2014 11:34

I am surprised at a 4 year old having an ipad. My kids are teenagers and don't have one.

OP- your friends sound delightful.

Only1scoop · 15/07/2014 11:41

Ditch your selfish classless foul mouthed friends....

You are his Mother for goodness sake.

The swearing sounds outrageous....the fact you still let him be around 'friends' with foul mouths is very sad.

OorWullie · 15/07/2014 11:42

Hi, just wanted to say that my 4 year old is going through a similar phase just now, he doesn't swear at me or behave aggressivley to other children but the tantrums, defiance and demanding toys is the same.

It's very difficult to do, especially when out in public but the thing that works best for me is to ignore the behaviour.

If he swears at you, do not react at all, I completely disregard my son if he is saying nasty things, so they are not having the effect he wants them to and he is notgetting a reaction for being horrible.

If he deliberately hurts another child, remove him, tell him off and take him home or away from the park etc. Whatever tantrum follows, ignore it, don't let him see that screaming, kicking, shouting etc gets him more attention.

Same with the ipad etc, take it away when you feel you need to, put it in a safe place that he can't get to and then carry on as normally as you can.

You could try explaining to him that you will not speak to him until he speaks nicely to you and praise him when he does. In my experience my four year old plays up for attention, so lots of praise/rewards for being good and not acknowledging the bad seems to work best.

Only1scoop · 15/07/2014 11:43

Op 'thought it was essential for every child to own an ipad'

Why do I always get sucked in to these joke threads....

Cockadoodledooo · 15/07/2014 11:53

Come Dine With Me isn't a programme for 4 year olds.

That language is not appropriate for 4 year olds. That he knows to use it in context shows it has been modelled frequently.

4 year olds do not need ipads.

4 year olds don't need threats of violence either.

Model the kind of behaviour you want and (hopefully) it'll come.

I have a strong willed 4 year old myself btw. I agree it's not easy, and I totally wouldn't put myself up there as being anything near a perfect parent or consider telling you how to raise your son, but those were the things that stood out to me from your post that would be easy to change.

Original poster

YourShoesAreLovely · 15/07/2014 12:03

Dida.I can admit I am easy on him discipline him.
Combust. Most of my friends and families children own iPads.
Oor. Thanks for the advice.
Only1scoop. Could you please explain what is funny about a 4 year old having an iPad?
Cooka. My child uses his iPad a lot and I will never permanently take it away from him, he uses it for educational purposes and to play games and keeps him quiet on long car journeys.

OP posts:

duchesse · 15/07/2014 12:06

Where to start? On the off-chance that you are for real...

No, he doesn't need an iPad. Nobody needs one, a pre-schooler least of all.
He is a child.
If your DH's answer was truly to thump your child until he wets himself, you have far more serious problems than the ones you have with your 4 yo. I suggest you seek professional help with leaving your (d)H.
Assuming you are for real and your DH really said that, there is your answer about why your DS is behaving like this.

Only1scoop · 15/07/2014 12:07

'I thought it was essential for every child to own an ipad'

I thought this statement made your thread appear to be a wind up.

Or do you actually believe what you have written??

NickiFury · 15/07/2014 12:09

This thread is either a wind up or you are incredibly stupid OP. Which is it?

combust22 · 15/07/2014 12:11

OP is all your friends kids have ipads and friends have foul mouths maybe it's time to re-evaluate your social circle.

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