Discipline - Sent to bed 2 hours early and with no tea

[youngwidow]

I've just sent my five year old to bed with no tea after misbehaving during her Spanish tuition. (She was brought up bilingual until I moved us to the UK - from Spain - after the death of her Father, so the classes are to not lose her Spanish). She's a good kid, lively but clever and normally pretty good behaviour and she knows she has done wrong. For the last three weeks it has been one (more minor) punishment or another after her tuition. She would not behave like that in school - ever. I have never sent her to bed more than 45 minutes early and always had her tea. Am I wrong to do this? No treats, no tv etc. have not worked.

She is FIVE.
She has lost her dad.
She has lost her home country where her primary language is spoken.

And she is now losing her tea just because she was playing up during language tuition. To teach her a language she does not need daily anymore.

You do know that withholding food is considered child abuse?

I do speak Spanish , although not perfect, grammatically. Until she was 4.5 she only ever spoke English to me and Spanish to almost everyone else. She finds it difficult to talk to me in Spanish, although she will listen, which is why I got the tutor.

Quinteszilla, I didn't know missing tea was child abuse...

I think your punishment is too harsh, and I also think that after school tuition is too much at her age.

I would get some Spanish DVDs or CDs to listen to, have them on in the background etc if you want to maintain her Spanish. She'll learn far more by watching an engaging kiddy TV programme in Spanish when she's in the mood, than for a class at the end of a school day.

I think you are expecting WAY too much of her.

Withholding food is regarded a form of child abuse yes.

Isn't Dora the explorer originally in Spanish?

She's 5 and she is being made to do an activity after school which she doesn't enjoy. So she misbehaves.

I can see why you want her to keep up her Spanish, but this really isn't the right way. I would either change the lessons to a weekend, or find another way- look for a different tutor or a local Spanish speaking family she could meet with to play and chat.

What you can do, is try liaise with your daughters school getting Spanish after school or lunch time clubs. My sons school offer spanish lunch time club, in addition to French and Italian taught as second languages.

Aside from that, Spanish films, books, etc.

Yabvvvvu!
Feed her!

I understand that you may not realise the complications of bring up bilingual children, but if you do not practise a language, you lose it and children lose it a lot quicker than you or I. Of course I do not want my child to lose her native language. She is a Spanish national.

You've probably been told this rather a lot, now, but witholding food is never an appropriate punishment for a child.

So how would a Spanish after school club differ?

Ok. I do feel bad about the food. It won't happen again.

Sorry I sounded harsh.
It may not be the Spanish itself that is a trigger that is something she has always done but is she aware on any level that she is having these lessons for the reason that her father was the native speaker and it is your wish to keep up her Spanish because of him? It could be the pressure of those reasons and a reminding trigger that causes the outbursts?
I agree that doing it this way is a sure fire way for her to hate Spanish. I can totally understand why you want to keep it up and agree it is very important but whether it be tiredness, pressure or grief there is something about these lessons triggering bad behaviour so you may need to return to the drawing board.

You have both had huge adjustments to make. It is frightening to be bringing up a child alone. I know.

You sound like a very caring mother but I think you have high expectations of yourself and of your little girl.

Please cut yourselves some slack and don't worry about her losing her Spanish - she won't - just relax a little. You are doing fine.

Have you taken her something to eat yet?

I believe that a punishment should fit the crime.

She messed about during a lesson that you have had to pay for, so she misses something fun that you also have to pay for, or if she gets pocket money then she loses that to 'pay' for the lesson.

Food had nothing to do with her 'crime' so you shouldn't have used the loss of food as a punishment (if ever tbh)

Going to bed early, yes, but you should have given her dinner early then bed straight after.

I think you have punished her twice and that is too harsh.

My children are bilingual. I am Norwegian, we live in London. My husband is Polish, we could not master three languages.

The Spanish after school club would be in school, so no need to go somewhere else, and it would be more like fun with her school friends, than heavy learning.

This is not very good. I won't repeat all the views on the thread but I absolutely agree with them.

Agree that 5 is very young for a tutor. Why can't you just speak Soanish to her (albeit imperfectly). Get her Spanish Granny to send over some Spanish children's DVDs and books

Is there an activity or game she likes to play? Agree with her that you'll speak Spanish a few times a week whilst you do that so she starts to associate Spanish with having fun times. Not as a huge chore. Look at whether you are so hung up on the tutor etc as a way to keep the bind with her father alive. That is understandable but your issue. She is to small to be conduit to that.

You say that you didn't realise that no tea was abusive. I understand that things must be very hard (I'm very sorry about your bereavement) but I think it would be worthwhile getting some help and support from your health visitor/school nurse regarding appropriate and effective ways to discipline, as required

I absolutely agree that children need discipline and I wouldn't let mine misbehave for a tutor either but TBH I think if she is raised with her mother banishing her and withholding food as a punishment you're going to have much bigger issues than her losing her Spanish.

No ordinarily well nourished child is going to come to physical harm from missing one meal but the emotional impact could be enormous.

IMO if the tutor's as good as you say, she would be holding her attention and dealing with the poor behaviour herself.

If you're in regular verbal contact with GPs does she really need the tuition? i.e. she is getting regular opportunities to practise.

Bed early yes. No tea, extremely harsh and almost Victorian....

OP why did you start this thread? What did you want to get out of it?

Loads of posters have gave you their (unanimous) opinion that sending a child to bed with no dinner is too harsh.

They have also tried to help you with suggestions for your daughter practicing Spanish.

You have ignored and disagreed with everybody. You are certain that your way is the right way. So why bother asking for advice in the first place?

I understand why you don't want her to loose her heritage, and please please please don't dismiss the devestating effect losing her father will have on her at such a young age. Two years is NOTHING, i say this as an adult who lost her father 8 years ago. It still hurts like hell.

The thing is, if you continue to force the spanish on her then you are going to end up with her not wanting to embrace it and rejecting it. She skypes her relatives, visits and you speak spanish to her (albeit not grammatically perfect, so what, is your english perfect? I know mine isn't).

Maybe she finds it weird having to stay in the room on her own with the tutor, especially if you are in the house and i say again, the tutor clearly isn't engaging her.

Don't try and over compensate for her, and your loss by trying to raise a perfect child - you are way to strict, she is five years old. Yes there are consequences but what you are doing is too much. Just let her BE and learn and develop. You speaak so proudly of her - give yourself credit for that. She sounds like a lovely little girl.

I have a friend who constantly battles with her DD, aged 8, punishments for stuff that me and DD would have a giggle over - her DD is pretty troubled actually. Its sad to watch - all for what? A perfectly behaved automaton?

youngwidow - sorry, just saw your updated post where you've realised how this just isn't on.

It does sound like the tutoring is too much for her at the moment. Especially if she is anticipating being punished after it, it is going to make her feel anxious and be more likely to misbehave.

Instead of punishing, which doesn't seem to be helping if you have to punish her every time for 3 weeks - would it not be more constructive to look at why the tutoring isn't working? It might be too late in the day for her, it might be that she is rebelling against the language which is a REALLY common thing and, no, she won't lose it if you go to Spain regularly, although she may stop progressing at the rate a Spanish child would. But unless you cut all contact with Spanish, she won't lose it completely. I am raising a bilingual child myself and have done a lot of reading etc so I'm not totally clueless. Current thinking when they rebel is to take pressure off for a while and pick it back up in a few months or a year or so.

An after school club could be different because she would be in a group with other children rather than one on one with an adult which is quite an unusual situation for a child outside of family members.