Do you shout and is it as bad as

[HelloDolly]

smacking in your opionion ?

I shout but don't smack, but when I was a child I could be reduced to a snivelling heap by Mum or Dad shouting at me so I wonder whether it's just as bad.

If you don't please, please tell me what works instead, I have actually lost my voice today from yelling at them to stop hitting and winding each other up.
It is lack of attention today because I am knackered but this isn't a widly unusual day.

Perhaps not in the genes agy. My adoptive mom had a bad temper - shouted and smacked a lot. I really hated it.

I don't smack - and I only very occaisionally raise my voice sternly - hardly a shout. What shocks me, is how strong the urge to both shout and smack are. I am VERY motivated to control it - but I am horrified to feel myself wanting to copy my own mother's behaviour.

So otoh I totally get the end-of-fuse snapping then shouting/smacking - but otoh only as an urge. I do think it can be controlled - if you REALLY want to. I look back and wish my mother had given that some thought.

I find it's partly a cultural thing. In Italy, from what I've seen, people have no qualms about shouting at other adults in public.

In this country, it is accepted and common to shout at children in public, but not (usually) at adults. People who yell at their partner in a supermarket get funny looks and may be asked to leave.

In Sweden, shouting at your child is seen as similar to shouting at an adult; people are embarrassed about it, so it's something you rarely hear on the streets.

I can sympathise with parents who smack their child in the heat of the moment- but I feel torn two ways on this one. After all, what would we say about a man who admitted to smacking his wife because she made him lose control? Or are we pretending that partners can't be as infuriating as children? I can see the argument for not treating a child as the equal of an adult- because we know more than them and it is our responsibility to bring them up. But once we are admitting to losing control to the extent of doing things we really don't believe in- doesn't that argument go out the window? How come we lose control with our children and not with our bosses and spouses? Let's face it, it's not for very admirable reasons.

I don't want to lay guilt on anyone who has done something they regret, because heaven knows parenting is a hard enough job without the guilt. Still, I sometimes do think you can be proactive and avoid a lot of hassle. Simple things, like starting an interesting conversation the moment before you enter the supermarket/get on the bus, holding the hand of a toddler in a shopping centre or even using reins.

I didn't find singing good for actually communicating with the children (too difficult to keep a straight face), but invaluable during the buildup to boiling point, to drown out the sound of my mounting frustration. I sang a lot during the early years, and not always because I was happy.

I have shouted on occasion (oh yes, I have!!!), but not really in public: I have always been keen to teach my children that we have to be extra considerate when other people are around who don't know us, and that goes for me as much as for them. If they don't copy that from me, they'll never learn it, and I do think it's an important lesson to learn. It's not about being a hypocrite, it's about not imposing on other people. Shouting always sounds much worse from a complete stranger and personally I hate the thought of a bus journey punctuated by loud screams from strange women.

But I do find that being forced to hold myself in in public makes me think of strategies that are then useful in the home.

oh geesh i am so glad its not just me that shouts! I shout alot, But saying that i have tried not to, and i am getting a much better response, simply because they dont hear me shouting! hehe I have tried the getting down to there level and putting in a chill out space, but i eaither get a fit of giggles from them (think they think i am going to join them when i go down!)so tbh i am not sure what works. I totally agree with the effect of shouting becomes less effective if used alot. I do smack occasionally and thats when it stops. I grew up in a very tight family orintated surroundings and the occasional smack i got i knew damn well that i over stepped the mark! that soon stoped me from being a lil biatch
However as i said before its not often only in extream occasions.

I totally agree with you Cory! Making a conversation before supermarket triips! hehe i would never dream of shouting in public to ANY ONE let alone dh or dc.

My mother and grandparents are Italian and shouting in the house was an everyday normality. Would never have been right to walk into a room without loud/shouting voices oh thoes were the days!

Maybe I don't shout that much. I don't really know, because when it happens I feel so tightened inside, the feeling gets extremely intense and even difficult to recall. Attempt to control is so strong I go in an other room to let go the anger on a cushion. Am reading a really good book on anger and trying to learn it by heart because I agree, it can be controlled, but it takes time. Can't be done overnight and what is the best way? Trying our best I guess. When I raise my voice though, the guilt is so bad.I really think am a bad mum and all the rest, and maybe my 3 year old is picking up on the guilt and use it to get away with more. She knows how much I hate when she says she's scared of me. She also says she scared of daddy and of her childminder and of all the children she meets. But does she really know what it means? She also says she's scared of the dark when we turn the light out with a big smile on her face trying so hard to keep a straight face because she knows we know she'snot really scared (we keep the door wide open with lots of lights going in her room). So maybe she just doesn't like it when we get cross and knows how to stop us getting cross by saying what we don't want to hear.
Isn't anger problematic in our society because it is shameful, we have sort of been taught to repress that emotion that is only natural, so it manifests itself in all sorts of ways such as illnesses, guilt, loneliness, drugs...
I believe hitting is wrong and cannot do it myself. I believe yelling constantly is wrong and in 3 years it has happened a couple of times. My sister yells constantly at her children and dog and I don't really like her company. Sad I know. Maybe I shout a bit when I get really tired but am really working on it and it is allmost always indirectly. Am expecting again and I'm a bit scared.I don't believe in myself I'm not sure I can cope. Like all of you I want to be the best mum for my children.Maybe we're too harsh on ourselves,maybe it is society. Maybe as long as we try our best, we'll be allright.

Agy - it is REALLY hard but it sounds like you are doing very well actually. I think one of the key things is to acknowledge, in advance, that you are going to feel like totally losing it and be prepared for that feeling so it never comes as a surprise (and somehow keep at the front of your mind how sorry you will be later if you do lose it).

I think that sometimes when you have experienced a lot of parental anger you have both an almost overwhelming urge to anger yourself as well as an ovwhelming sense of guilt and failure at every slightest failure to control that urge. That's how I feel as well - if I show any anger to dd I am eaten up with guilt - and yet there must be a compromise - it is normal to show some appropriate anger.

When shouting and smacking become routine ways of dealing with kids then something is very wrong, IMO. Of course some kids are more challenging - but it doesn't seem to work on them anyway.

Toddlers definitely pick up phrases that get a desired reaction. Dd has a couple of those that she uses (kind of toddler 'get out of jail free' cards) and I need to deprogram them somehow.

Our society, compared to many others (but less than some) does frown on displays anger. IMO that's not a bad thing - it's about respect.

Thanks. This is addictive. It really helps to talk with you. I think it has helped me cope better with my dd's temper in the past few days. That is great! Thanks mummies!

I rarely shout. This tends to make the situation worse because they can see you have lost control. I put dd in our hallway and close the door until she stops the tantrum. I then go in and ask her if she is going to play nicely, she says yes and in she goes until the next one!

forgot to add that I use controlled smacking as a last resort when no other way will work. i.e. nowhere to time out or if time out would result in dd achieving her aim. An example being playing with food on her plate with her hands and banging cutlery on the table having been warned to stop 3 times. She gets her hand tapped because to remove her from the table would mean getting down from the table which is what she wants.iyswim

Guess we're all different and is there a REALLY RIGHT way? I certainly would never smack because that's wrong to me. Just does not make sense to me at all. I feel like doing it when I'm really angry, but I could simply not do it. When I was a child, our teachers smacked us all the time for the silliest little thing. We were just used to it and didn't really care. It certainly did not stop us from being naughty and now I'm even wondering if some didn't really enjoy hitting us like that. Hitting has just been used in such a destructive way in my family when I was a kid, I can't bear the word.
My little angel is going through a changing phase and it is a fight from waking up. She's 3 in two days and just won't go in the bathroom, which I have to negotiate (time out works for one thing only though, have to do again and again...), then won't get undressed, washed, dressed, have her teeth cleaned. Every single thing I have to find a strategy and it's like that for everything I ask from her. She wakes at 8 am, at 9.30 I'm in tears cause I'm already running out of strategies.I get ready in plenty of time to do things for her! Going to the singing group....it takes hours simply to get washed and dressed because I refuse to shout. It is such a fight against myself, my anger is sssssoo enormous that I have to bite myself, scream in a pillow every 10 minute, and I'm 7 month pregnant and they tell you you should be as calm as poss during pregnncy. I feel so lonely too, I have contractions all day long, they're getting painful. What can I do??? I feel just having someone to share might help. Sometimes I get at the edge of temper control, my voice raises and if I've said 5 words a bit too loud I then have to deal with guilt. Just hate myself so much for having raised my voice and eyebrows for a few seconds no more than once or twice in a day. It is really hard because I know how I want to deal with it, but what I've learnt from my parents is what I know, what comes first. I have to push it away so hardto get the better me out. It's almost like being possessed, my right hand is fighting my left. I'm drained after a day of fighting with my dd and with myself, completely drained. She's fine, happy as ever,cause I managed to keep things fairly tidy in front of her, but I'm a wreck.

Haven't read whole thread (sorry - I know that's bad form, but need to go to bed) but was at a talk at dd's school last night on the SEAL curriculum and was very impressed with the behaviour technique that they suggested and am going to try to use it with my dds instead of shouting. It comes in three stages (which I am summarising below - don't have the material in front of me)

1. Describe the obvious behaviour and don't ask 'why?'.

So... 'Babybell you have not got your coat on' (rather than my usual 'Babybell, why haven't you put your coat on yet?' which can be perceived as confrontational.

This may be enough to change the behaviour on its own. But if not you go to stage 2.

1. Describe the desired behaviour. Again avoid putting it as a question and don't say please. Rather, say 'thank you' which assumes that the action will be performed.

'Babybell. Put your coat on. Thank you!'

If this doesn't work you move to the third stage which involves freedom of choice.

1. If Babybell continues not to put her coat on, I could say something like (I am still working on this one to try to 'get' what the sanctions for not doing something should be...) 'Babybell you are choosing not to put your coat on. That's your choice, but if you continue not to put your coat on, you will also be choosing not to watch any TV tonight'. I'm still getting my head around this third stage (which is the stage at which I'd normally resort to shouting), but basically it involves the child understanding that they have rights but also responsibilities and that they have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions if they don't do what we want them to do. In the classroom this takes the form of a 'class contract' which all the kids sign up to and whereby certain rights (e.g. the right to do whatever they want at playtime) are matched with certain responsibilities (e.g. the responsibility not to do anything dangerous).

I was impressed by the talk I went to last night and will see if it works!

I shoult all the time and hate myself for it - especially when it has not effect whatsoever and just makes people stare at me and I just think "god you have no idea how far I've been pushed" - I used to smack because reasoning or trying to keep them on the naughty step had no effect either but I've managed not to smack my youngest - mind you she is my biggest nightmare and totally uncontrollable and at least sometimes the older two listen to me.