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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

just give him water and he will stop waking up.

30 replies

NachoAddict · 19/08/2013 22:39

Well thanks but I have tried that and it doesn't work

Ds 13 months doesn't sleep at night. He wakes up to bf every hour at worst or two - three hours at best. .

We tried dp settling him and it worked in a way, he was just waking up once or twice a night but instead of taking 5 mins to settle with a quick feed he would take around half an hour.

So I thought one or two quick feeds, I can live with that. Oh no, as soon as I started giving milk again he wants to spend Ll night with my nipple in his mouth.

Dp has stopped helping so its all on me and he knows I have milk. He gets hysterical if I don't give in and there is work on the morning.

So what is the secret? Help please!

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NeoMaxiZoomDweebie · 19/08/2013 22:44

Does he bf in the daytime too?

FaddyPeony · 19/08/2013 22:46

Are you co sleeping?

Original poster

NachoAddict · 19/08/2013 22:50

I work 4 days so he feeds in the day when I'm around.

We start In seperate beds, he goes down like a dream no milk required but after putting him in and out he ends the night with us from about 3/4 ish.

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Fairylea · 19/08/2013 22:51

What is he eating during the day? Ds is 14 months and eats like a tank... 3 good meals and snacks and two bottles of milk a day. Babies tend to sleep longer at night if they are getting all their calories during the day as opposed to milk overnight... not sure if this applies? Just an idea.

Original poster

NachoAddict · 19/08/2013 22:58

I don't think its a hunger thing because he will often just want a few quick Sucks or just to lay there latched on.

He eats breakfast, snack, a bit of lunch but not much, snack, tea quite late and anything else he can get off his brother and sisters so biscuits, fruit, icepops. He eats far too much junk!

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Fairylea · 19/08/2013 23:00

Have you tried offering a dummy? If he seems to just want to suck maybe he might be happy with one just for nighttime?

maja00 · 19/08/2013 23:01

It only worked for us when DP started doing bedtime (so I wasn't feeding to sleep) and dealing with night wakings. As you say, if they know you are there with the boob of course they want it.

A couple of night wakings at 13 months doesn't sound too bad - they would probably have got shorter than half an hour if his dad had persevered.

memememum · 20/08/2013 11:20

Hello Nacho. I sympathise with your lack of sleep. Up until a couple of months ago my DS had spent 18 months waking up similarly frequently to yours. It is grim isn't it.

I don't think there's a secret formula as they and we are all individuals but I can tell you what happened to us back in June.

I go out one evening a week and once I got back and my DH said to me "there's something you should know".

It turned out he had reached the absolute end of his tether (18 months of no more than 3 hours sleep in a row is a long time) and left DS to cry at bedtime. He'd cried for 10 mins then slept through, 8-5am!

I then had a think about how I could change my bedtime routine with him and decided to only give his bedtime bf in the lounge not the bedroom. I told him this over and over again during the next day and he understood and was ready that evening. We decided not to go into him when he woke unless he sounded like there was something wrong, although he's not talking at this age we could clearly hear the difference between "help I'm awake" and "ow my tooth really hurts". During the first wk he cried once for 7 minutes and all other times for only 1-2 minutes, then didn't at all after that. We were really lucky that actually nothing was wrong with Ds during the night for several weeks from starting. We would have gone into him if there was.

Ds now sleeps really well and when he needs something I am confident to go in and help him, tell him he must now go back to sleep then leave. I think for our ds the really important thing was language and understanding. He had become so used to us coming to settle him that he needed to be told that he could settle himself. A big difference I see in him is that before he would always be in exactly the same position I put him in. Now I go into his room and he has rearranged his covered, tucked in his teddy, turned the other way etc.

For us, the ability to take action came from that tiny spark of hope on the first night, when he slept for the first time.

Hope I haven't rambled too much, have written between being jumped on, getting elevenses, etc.

mawbroon · 20/08/2013 11:58

All these sleep tips make me guffaw. Great if they work for your baby, but nothing, I mean absolutely nothing worked for ds1.

Turns out he was tongue tied which can affect sleep in some cases. Also, when he was 6yo, I observed some periods of apnoea when he was asleep in the evening (also connected to the tongue tie and oral structure) which I am guessing affected his sleep as an infant.

Sleep deprivation is fucking torture.

DS2 was much better and I used some of the techniques from The No Cry Sleep Solution for him. Night weaning involved me sleeping in a different room and ds2 sleeping quite happily with DH.

Original poster

NachoAddict · 20/08/2013 13:51

Fairylea We take several dummies to bed because when offered a dummy if he wants milk they get launched across the room. Thanks for the suggestion though.

maja00 I think we are going to have to give it another go. DP is reluctant because he has work in the morning (so do I) and he doesn't cope well on little sleep. Apparently it's easier for me because I have an office job.

memememum when did you know that he could understand you, ds is 13 months but still seems such a baby. If I told him that things were changing I'm not confident that he would understand. He doesn't have a going to bed feed, he feeds when I get in from work around 5.30-6 and then again at 9-10 and every 1 / 2 / 3 hours from then on. If I offer a going to bed feed I get poked or bitten!

mawbroon ds had tounge tie, he had it snipped at one week old and doesn't seem to have had any problems with it since. When did you notice your ds sleeping for longer periods or not needing to bf when he woke?

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mawbroon · 20/08/2013 13:55

Nacho, he started sleeping through reliably when he turned 5yo, but I had night weaned him at 3.5yo. Previous attempts at night weaning had been futile.

Original poster

NachoAddict · 20/08/2013 14:50

Oh..... Thats not what I want to hear, thank you for your honesty though!

I have printed Dr Jay Gordons night weaning method to try... in 10 days time I will have a baby that no longer wants to feed to sleep...

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memememum · 20/08/2013 15:16

Hi Nacho. I think the realisation that they can understand comes gradually. Eg Maybe someone uses simplified instructions for their little one "put your shoes on" but one day is chatting to a visitor about going out soon in normal language and said little one goes and puts on their shoes. You know you're child best and if you're not convinced they understand then they probably don't.
Like I tried to describe, our breakthrough was just luck and we had been trying various things as the stupification of sleep deprivation would allow and just trying to answer ds's needs and survive at the same time.

Original poster

NachoAddict · 20/08/2013 15:44

He understands No, as it usually met with a cheeky grin. However I think he is awhile off understanding much more.

I hope we have a lucky break like you did. I am hopeful with Dr Jay we might get a little better. Failing that, I may put his cot in the shed

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MummyBeerest · 20/08/2013 15:51

Ugh, I've heard that before OP. Since when did water act as chloroform?

Stupid question maybe as I'm pretty much in the same boat with 13mo DD-but has he tried cow's milk/other dairy?

NumTumDeDum · 20/08/2013 16:11

Nacho do you have a link for thst Dr Jay thing? I'm getting desperate for more than two hours in a row myself!

chocolateOrCake · 20/08/2013 16:21

I had the same problem at the same age with DS - waking 5 times a night. The water thing did work for me but giving it to him in a toddler straw cup that he had to suck quite hard on and could keep with him (someone else giving it to him for a couple of nights). The sucking does seem to help although we did have a fair few nights we had to change everything as he had fallen asleep on the spout and it had leaked.

He still often falls asleep sucking and cuddling it like a teddy, for a while we had to get up once or twice a night when he lost the cup but he seems to have grown out of that.

Original poster

NachoAddict · 20/08/2013 17:22

mummybeetrest that actually made me laugh. It has also given me an idea. Hmmm chloroform.....

Have tried expressed breast milk, cows milk chocolate milk juice and water, all have been thrown across the room in disgust.

Have tried a traditional bottle, sippy cup and sports cap bottle, not a sucky straw yet though so maybe worth a try.

numtumdedum I am on my phone at the mo but I just googled dr jay Gordon night weaning and it popped up.

OP posts:

Original poster

NachoAddict · 20/08/2013 17:24

Just realised how negative I sound saying tried it, tried it, tried it.

I am grateful for all suggestions there is bound to be something we have missed.

OP posts:

NumTumDeDum · 20/08/2013 17:34

Ah found it, thank you

catkind · 20/08/2013 17:36

Here's how I did night-weaning - first I said to myself no feeds before midnight, and cuddled him back to sleep with a "sleepy time now not milk time". After a few days he stopped waking before midnight, then I said no feeds before 2am. etc. By moving it gradually I only ever had to deal with one difficult settle a night, and actually once he'd learned to go to sleep without milk for me each shift became easier and easier.
Wearing more layers helped mine not to be so indignant about milk. And it sounds like your DS may be like mine was and be more after the cuddles than actually thirsty/hungry? We did find just cosleeping all night got us more sleep too - sometimes he would just snuggle up rather than waking me.
Good luck!

Original poster

NachoAddict · 20/08/2013 18:12

I definitely do think it is more of a comfort thing catkind I like your idea, however doesn't baby get confused that sometimes he can have milk and sometimes he can't?

This is on my list of things to try too.

OP posts:

MummyBeerest · 20/08/2013 18:41

Not a problem Nacho

DD is the same...can't stand milk in any presented form (except mine, straight from the source)

She's a cuddle bug too. Dh often has to give up because all she wants is to snuggle with me. I actually feel really badly for him.

Original poster

NachoAddict · 21/08/2013 08:35

Your DH will have you back soon enough.. their not babies for long, although it feels like it at the time!

Well Day One of Jay Gordons method last night.

It went really well. The hours I am aiming for are 11 - 6, DS woke up about 11 so I fed him, a short feed, once on each side, sat him up, gave his dummy and put him back into his own cot. Did that another two times, both times feeding him sat up rather than lying down. He didn't complain about being put back in his own bed awake. At 5.41 (a bit early) he came into bed with us and stayed asleep until 7 when the alarm went off. That is brilliant in itself!

I am worried about stage two, cuddles but no feeding but it falls over bank holiday weekend which means no work....

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Xmarksthespot · 21/08/2013 09:17

Hi, I'd like to weigh in on this too. My DS is/was EXACTLY the same as yours - waking frequently just to suckle. We co-sleep for 3/4 of the night depending on when he wakes - from 6 mths - 15 mths he'd wake before midnight so that's when we'd co-sleep but now he's not waking til 4am so we sleep together from then). I was at my wits end.

I did this method too and have had quite a bit of success with it. Its not perfect and I did/do have a little tantruming toddler in bed with me but its easier to deal with when he's in bed next to me as I'd just turn my back and say "bubba go to sleep - no bobbies now". He'd eventually go back to sleep. I'd then give him milk around 4am. It eventually got pushed out to 6am, and then on waking. He's still waking around 5am and demanding it and I'm fighting him off me (he's 17mths old now and super strong) but he usually falls asleep after a few minutes - or he points for his water bottle. I really pushed a bottle of water on him and he eventually took it and is happy with that now. I made a concious decision not to feed him to sleep and just dropped it totally myself and just offered him a bottle of cow's milk instead - i think that was around 14 months. The day feeds were cut too (actually whilst we were on a 2 week driving holiday so when we got home I just carried on not offering). I made sure he was eating plenty and having a snack when he'd normally have a boobie milk feed. My DS would still be b'fdng now if I let him but now he's older his language skills are increasing and he really understands when I say "bubba go to sleep" or "milkies gone bye bye". I've dried up totally so if he does manage to fight his way down my top he's not getting anything - he'll give it a go though little blighter!!

Anyway good luck.

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