Agressive Toddler

[kizzie]

Help! I'm feeling mortified. Went to a party today and one of my little boys (2 and a half) hit a little girl (only about 14 months old) on the head with a video. It was really quite hard and she did cry but was ok after a couple of minutes. I apologised to her mum and made my son apologise but I feel so awful about it.
Not sure what else I should do - call the mum who held the party to check the little girl is ok/ buy her a present?
Anyone any views?

My son went through a stage like that when he was 2 1/2 also. He did grow out of it though, but not before I felt like the worst mother ever. Heartfelt apologies to the mom and tot from you and your son are enough as long as you made sure it didn't happen again at the party. From your tone, I'm sure you kept an extremely close eye on him after the incident and that's all you could really do at that point, I think.

If it's any reassurance, my son is an extremely sweet little 4 yo boy now, so things do change. Good luck!

Hi there, my son (now 4yo) used to be really quite agressive at 3-ish and isn't (mostly) now.
I'm sure the other mother will appreciate that your son is quite young and therefore there will be this kind of behaviour sometimes (NOT your fault, I think most of them do it from what I gather from my experience and that of friends and especially boys who don't know their own strength sometimes) and you did say sorry and get your son to do the same. Anything other than apologies shouldn't be necessary, the mother should understand and I'm sure her daughter wasn't seriously hurt. And it is a phase! Please try not to feel bad about it, although I know it's easier said than done at the time!

I have a similar problem but in reverse. I have a friend whose dd is now 21 months old and we get together with the children on a monthly basis. My dd is 16months old. The past four occasions when we have got together my friends child has been quite unfriendly towards my dd ranging from banging her on the head with toys, to biting and pulling hair. Needless to say my dd has become quite distressed with it all and ends up in floods of tears huddled up on my lap! I appreciate that this behavior is not intentional in such young children but it concerns me that it is happening whenever we get together which makes our outings all quite stressful!

I have seen the tot in action at other events at she tends to follow a similar pattern especially the pulling of hair and biting.

I am in a dileema as to what to do, on one hand I don't want to wrap my dd up in cottonwool and I I don't want her to loose her confidence with other children. I also don't want her getting the idea that it is OK to do all these things.

I have got to the stage now after last weeks meeting ( which was particulary bad) whether I should just not meet up for a couple of months and hope the tot grows out of it, but I don't want to upset my friend. Any suggestions?

hi kizzie, I can understand that you are mortified, but if the little girl's mum has older children she will understand that kids do these things at around this age...if not, well I'm sure the other mum doesn't think any less of you, nor do I think the little girl would have suffered any long-term damage, save for maybe a headache! (Btw making a 2 and a half year old apologise isn't really worth the trouble, as they don't mean it and are just saying it because you tell them to!)

Best thing I have found is to give most of your attention to the "victim", and rescue/comfort them first, then distract them into a new activity while you take the "attacker" aside and explain that hitting/biting/kicking/pinching etc is not on and why eg "you hurt Sarah when you hit her" and warn of a consequence if they do it again - time out, leaving the friend's house, missing a treat - but make sure you do follow through on the "threat" or it means nothing next time you say it!

To Tula, at this age they don't really play "together" or know about sharing or taking turns yet, so it's hard to expect them to get along the whole time during a long-ish visit. But I agree that her behaviour is not acceptable and it is stressful on you if you feel you have to watch her like a hawk! Maybe you could concentrate on this little girls good behaviours (there must be some occasionally!) when they visit, and praise her for playing nicely or quietly etc. Sometimes kids who don't get a lot of attention or are ignored when behaving well will resort to hitting and biting etc to get some! How does your friend handle her behaviour? Maybe you could try stepping in as above and see how she reacts? After all, it's your child who getting beaten up! I think you have a right to respond! Let us know how you go...

Hi Tula!

How does your friend react when her dd acts in this way?
Have you discussed this with her?
Ihave a 21mth old dd also and I would be mortified if she started acting this way.
It is awful that this is being made into your problem when really it is your friend who should be addressing the issue.
In playgroup we have babies this age who also occasionally lash out. This is to be expected of couse but your friends dd sounds like she is a lot worse and I think your friend needs to start now with some sort of discipline or things could get a lot lot worse.

Dear Kizzie, ,,IMO the mother will be placated by the fact that you apologised, and dealt with the discipline side. I've seen mothers laugh when their children do things like this.

The child your child hurt will also see that it is not acceptable for them to be hurt, and will feel valued because of that.

kizzie - dont worry too much about your son's behaviour I have a 4 year old who is just about coming to the end of hitting out at other kids phase. He still ocassionally does stuff ie. biting, kicking etc (usally when I have been singing his praises about how much calmer he is!!!) but it is becoming far less and as all the children being discussed in this thread are very young I think it can only be expected - not always nice for all involved but part of growing up and dealing with feelings. I worked myself up into a completely nervous state last year when his behaviour was very irratic and convinced myself that other parents loathed me/my son because of his behaviour but most people do see it as just what it is a phase that will pass.

Thankyou for all your messages!!! Feel much better now.

My 19mth old son had his first tantrum today on our driveway in full view of one of the neighbours. Help - how do you make your child understand the importance of holding your hand near roads and traffic?

My 19mth old son had his first tantrum today on our driveway in full view of one of the neighbours. Help - how do you make your child understand the importance of holding your hand near roads and traffic?

Gaga - My 20 mth old is exactly the same. I think at their tender age, it is more a case of restraining them for their own safety whether they like it or not. They are still a bit too young to understand how important (and what) road safety is, other than the real basics (ie, stop-no cars-go) but it is important to start good habits when young. If he doesn't like holding hands, what about reins or a wrist-strap, if you aren't using them already, of course.

I agree with chanelno5. I mostly carry my 21mth old to and from the car as she just trys to run off otherwise.
But my dd usually reserves her tantrums for later in the day whilst we are waiting at the school gates for ds. So all eyes are on me.
She's like an angel all day then becomes child from hell for those [long]ten mins.

Callie/Mollipops

I think my friend is getting embarassed and upset by her dd's behavior although she doesn't really talk in depth about it. I get the impression that because it has been going on for about 5 months and nothing she has tried is working she doesn't quite know what to do. When I have been in her company and her dd has bitten etc. she has taken her to one side and explained that it is not nice, it hurts etc. She has said when she has been at home she has tried 'time out' which tends to end up in tantrums and dd making herself sick and when at activities i.e gym club she has taken her home and explained that due to her behavior she cannot stay and play.

I have looked for answers in many books and they seem to be coming back with all the things my friend is doing already.

I suspect/hope that it will just run it's course
and she will come out of it, which seems to be the general opinion on this thread, however I am concerned for my dd,after last week so I think I might take some time out from the get togethers for a while and take it from there.

lulu40, I'd love to know how you dealt with your child's hitting etc. ? Any tips?

I wish I had found this thread earlier. My ds is 14 months and regularly gets 'over loved' (not my words) by my friends little boy who is 30 months. Strangling, pulling hard, pinching, refusing to let go and laying down on my ds. Last week was so bad that my ds was so traumatised he could not sleep at lunchtime, and ndow that me me sound like I have a wimp, or that I am being over potective. I have been informed quite sharply that I am NOT to reprimand the little boy as it upsets him. (not as much as me)

Of course I don't usually go around for coffee because of this always happening with my little boy (dh usually covers)however, this time it could not have been avoided. I was so upset by this last week my ds had marks on his neck and I just wanted to slap the offenders bottom so hard, especially when I was informed that he does at nursery all the time and has to stand in the naughty corner! (that made me feel so much better!!)

Anyway, the mother and i have a good relationship apart from our views on childcare, which are very different eg I beleive in saying no and she does not, however, as we all know you cannot critisise, however, it is making things so difficult, that I don't care if I don't see her or her vile little boy ever again. And quite frankly I would like to have her little boy for a couple of weeks and teach him right from wrong!!! Sorry I just had to say that, and it is not just me in our group of girlfriends we all feel the same and avoid, avoid.

What do I say when I get invited again, which I will next week, what would you do apart from the obvious excuses, and do you all think that I should confront the issue? if so what to I say?

Charliesmummy, I had this situation when my first ds was little. Every weekly coffee morning, I dreaded the arrival of a particular mother and child for the same reason.
In the end I saw it as a controlled learning experiment for my ds. I explained that some children don't know how to play nicely and encouraged him to say 'no' and walk away. Even at such a young age he understood, and obviously I was around to ensure things didnt go to far. after a while the offender started to pick on others as he realised he couldn't get away with it with my ds.
Btw ds is now aged 6 and very able to deal with confrontation without resorting to violence and the offending child still offends as do his 2 brothers!

Charliesmummy, Lill's advice sounds good. My ds also used to come back from nursery at the age of 3 and say cheerfully "Hey, didn't hit me today" as if it had been a lucky old day because of it! Although it made me cross, I played it down and explained that perhaps didn't know that it was wrong to hit. I told my ds to stay out of his way if possible but that if anything did happen he was to tell this boy he didn't like it and walk away. The other boy finally left the nursery so the situtation resolved itself.

As to whether you should say anything to the mother, that's a difficult one, since it's such a big deal to criticize someone's parenting and she probably is doing the best she can, albeit misguidedly (IMO).

I might be tempted to say something like "we're not coming on Friday, I think ds is a bit wary of at the moment ...perhaps we'll see you another time?" But maybe even that's too much? (obviously, use child's real name ) Only you know what you feel you can say to her. It does however, tell her, politely:

1. That you're not going and why
2. is not critical of her personally (although of course she could take it that way)
3. is true

Or you could go and make sure you keep a close eye on the other child. Even if the mother doesn't want you to reprimand him, you CAN say "please don't do that. Thank you." if he hits your child, and I can't imagine that anyone would take offence at this. Good luck, let us know how you go.

Charliesmummy allow me to play the hormonally inflamed devil's advocate.
I think you should have it out with this mother, at the risk of losing her friendship, which I think would be no loss. It is one thing to have different parenting styles. So she favours an overtly softly softly don't say no approach ( there's one fine reason not to have her as a friend in my book - she is clearly barking mad...)but it is quite another when this "Parenting style" directly "impacts" ( that is probably the kind of vocabulary she would use)on another child. It is not as if it is a one of thing - we have all been mortified at an outburst from our little darlings. She is condoning this little brat's behaviour and telling you to stand back and let Charlie get thumped into the bargain! NOT ON!! She is dictating to you how you should behave!!! Argh.
So in other words I think you should confront the issue, and say as kindly as possible the Charlie keeps getting hurt by Bratty and while you understand that children can be boisterous you are not prepared to allow Charlie to get hurt, and secondly, ( hopefully she is not too thick to grasp the next point) as she does not reprimand her child you don't want Charlie to think her son's roughness is acceptable because he does not get told off for it.
Alternatively, invite a large bullying four year old round to give little bratty some of his own medicine.
Whew! I'm off for a lie down!
Good luck.

message withdrawn

Lol @ wickedwaterwitch's "devilboy"...but I agree, if she invites you and you feel uncomfortable, just say so. Say that your son seemed really upset after last time you visited (true) and you'd rather not visit for a while (also true).

Or if you do visit, and an attack ensues, just remove your son from the situation (or tell him to walk away - I like that advice) and busy him with something else. If it recurs, apologise (!) and leave. Btw, do they ever visit you at your home? I think house rules should apply to all visitors, so maybe you could try it that way..."we don't hit in this house" or whatever. Could be adding fuel to the flames I guess. It's tricky but I think your friend is really risking losing (a lot of) friends over this one, and her son risks alienation especially once he starts school. Maybe it will take a teacher to point out that his kind of anti-social behavior is unacceptable.

I read my post and I realise how rambling and angry I was, my brain was going faster than the fingers.

Wow to all of you, I completely agree Jasper and Robinw - you hit a nerve there about my first responsibility being to my child - you're right of course, I had not thought it through - thank you for that, it make me all the more determined to STOP this now. It is so true that I do not want him to see this kind of behaviour, and yes I had not thought that the moment this starts, which I have to say is the moment we arrive we need to leave because it sends out all the wrong signals.

Mollipops - in answer to your question does she visit my house - NO, apparently I am not child friendly, funny how I have in general 2 other children of another friend 5yr and 7yr most afternoons after school for tea and to socialise with C.

Good advice and yes I am going to say something Wickedwaterwitch - I think 'we won't be coming because C is so wary of CHILD FROM THE SPAWN OF THE DEVIL at this precise moment, will be adequate. I await next week's command for coffee Lil.

For a bit more background we went on hols last year ............ I was not allowed my keys and mobile because Devilboy had to sleep with them otherwise the tantrum that ensued ... and I went with it because I did not want C to be woken! on a nightly basis. My bubba in bed at 7pm hers about 11ish!, so as you can see this is not a new thing, but that was last August and we have not been round more than twice since then, I have been there on my own or when I know the Nanny is around to scoop up any problems quickly.

It is awful, but its odd that putting it in writing to people who do not know the characters personalities, you have all come to the same advice that dh has given me minus the swearing!

What I find more amazing, which is a fault in my personality, is that if anyone did this same kind of bullying in the workplace I would fight for the victims rights as if my life depended on it! but I seriously cannot go through The Summer months (with the fact that I have so much leave to take) being worried that we are going to have problems. I will let you know. I am going to be assertive not aggressive, I am going to be assertive not aggressive, I am going to be .....

Jasper, while your message has great advice and of course is meant seriously, I have to say it really made me laugh as well! Love the humour here. It is amazing how we all put up with out children being terrorised isn't it, but I feel the parents concerned are also terrorising us by dictating our responses to the situation. Hey, like parent, like child.....of course the children are learning their lessons from the manupalitive, over-controlling parents. My advice is drop this "friend". My daughter has the child from hell's own nursery in her reception class and is a child we have known since babyhood. I no longer make arrangements outside of school with her mother and it is much nicer for my daughter and me. For your child's sake and your sanity, just say no...

Hi, charliesmummy. I go along with everyone else on this. Just a couple of add-ons for you to consider:

Is your friend so upset about her son's behavour that she's become defiantly in denial? Saying sharply that she doesn't want you telling off her son strikes me that she is only too aware of the problem.

The nursery have probaly told her that her son is a handful and she might feel really hounded and criticised. Does she get on with the nursery BTW?

Is she the sort of person you want to help? If so, is it worth refusing the next coffee meeting but inviting her for an adults only visit? Reinforcing the fact that you like her company, and you like her son when he is being good, stress his good points here - he must have some???? before going on to say that he upsets your son when he is being naughty, and your son is just too young to cope with her son at the moment. Her son has the advantage of age and strength. Lots of 30 month and 14 month olds are not going to get on too swimmingly IMO. There's a huge developmental gap and it's not an even match in terms of walking and talking etc. If she feels you aren't just being critical, perhaps her attitude might change for the better and you can establish some better ground rules for visits. In any case you can still meet up with her minus children for now.

But,if you feel this is all too much trouble, then as others have said, just cut the meetings out for the moment.

Yes I like your observation Cam - like parent like child. However, if you can separate the two which I do eg, not a lot of talk about children with this mother, in theory to hear her talk (and I do like her - she has been a good friend) one would think that she has the same views, however, in theory only. I think you are also right in that she has a Nanny - full time because C from H is such a handfull. Although very interestingly the child is not as badly behaved with the Nanny. I would like to speak to the Nanny and see what she thinks but of course that will never happen, and also The Nanny is the only one who can get him to have a nap at lunchtime!!.

I will let you all know how it goes, but next week the problem will not arise now, as we have just been lucky enough to get into Swimming Classes on Tuesday, and Music Lessons on Wednesday, and I just know I am going to busy on the other days! COWARD!.

Tigermoth - is she the kind of person that would accept advice - no, but she is definately in denial about the behaviour. And now I find after descreet probing that nobody goes for coffee because of this problem.

When I was driving to work this afternoon I was thinking about this AGAIN and I wondered if anyone knows of children who have grown up, who had this kind of free spirit, never say no, topsy turvy kind of life, and I am NOT being provocative (much), but what kind of teenagers and adults do they turn into? it would be unfair just to say badly behaved bullies, but I am really interested!.

Um well, charliesmummy, I have to say I was hardly disciplined at all as a child. I was spoiled rotten in fact. Obviously I can't say how my parents treated me as a toddler - and there is now no one in the family who can enlighten me, but from my earliest memories onwards, I cannot rememer my mother ever really getting firm with me. From the little information I have gleaned, her liberal attitude did cause some friction. Apparently I was seen as rather precocious. All I remember was that I had a ball!

She did slap me with the back of the hairbrush a few times, but then used to say sorry to me afterwards, and make me slap her on the back of her hand. Later on, she used to tell me on no account to do my homework if I didn't want to - and when I was 16 she let my boyfriend come to live with us.

I don't think I've grown up to be a devil woman, but there's still time, I suppose