Agressive Toddler

[kizzie]

Help! I'm feeling mortified. Went to a party today and one of my little boys (2 and a half) hit a little girl (only about 14 months old) on the head with a video. It was really quite hard and she did cry but was ok after a couple of minutes. I apologised to her mum and made my son apologise but I feel so awful about it.
Not sure what else I should do - call the mum who held the party to check the little girl is ok/ buy her a present?
Anyone any views?

Mollipops and Callie- you are probably right... I was just a bit sensitive as not long ago (famous for insulting other mums) Helen1969 criticised my parenting skills and called me a dragon !....
You start to wonder how you come across !

Thanks for your help

Ooops - sorry Pupuce - I was being tounge in cheek too ... was having a go at the radio/TV people certainly not you. And even then your source of info wasn't anything to do with that! I was just indulging myself with the usual Scottish love of aggrievances.

And yes indeed (thanks mollipops and callie) I didn't mean to cause offence at all by my discipline remark. I couldn't really think of another word to describe teaching your child good behaviour. I certainly don't think it is a derogatory term and I was indeed wishing you good luck.

Hope I have explained myself.

... Thanks Eulalia ! Happy to let it rest... you'll be glad to know that the shouting has diminished... but not disappeared... I now say "Would you like to shout in the garden?" in a cheecky tone... he smiles and says "no Mumy" and gives me a defiant/naughty look....
So not 100% success but he does know he can't scream when his baby sister is feeding or sleeping. Glad to say that he doesn't appear traumatised by the garden as it remains his favourite place .... but on his terms of course

And the snow in my part of Scotland has diminished too !

I've got all the joys of two children to come very soon ... no doubt I'll be on here asking for advice!

We have had a light dusting of snow here - but I want it to be warmer for the arrival of my 'Easter Egg'.

Charliesmummy , I read your message and immediately wanted to defend you. I can't understand how you can regard someone like devilboy's mum that as a friend. It sounds as if you are bullied by her.

Serena. Welcome to the board! You have a really impressive memory for names and situations. It will be great to have your advice onboard.

Malmomum, well spoted. And nice chase
Isn't it amazing... Serena is new to Mumsnet and unlike all the newcomers she is already familiar with some of our prefered topics and has even found the right discussions to participate in, the ones Sar71 and Helen1969 were in... what a talent.
And she is already looking for friends and allies !
Welcome to Mumsnet.

Just for the record, I have a feeling that serena is not new to mumsnet. I may be very wrong and it would be unfair on serena for me to say who I think she is.

We do a similar thing Pupuce, except ours have to go and sit on the stairs. When they have calmed down they can come in and apologise.If the bad behaviour starts again, they go higher up the stairs!

I found that sending them to their bedrooms didn't work because they just started playing with their toys, and I want them to think about what they have done.

He's only been into the garden once (the day I reported it)... I might try the stairs actually
The room is also not a good idea in our house as I don't want my kids to perceive their room as punishment.

Hi all, back on the boards after a very busy week, and a bad connection. Anyway Serena - to reply to your point - not bullied, not me, no never, I beleive that I have been so tolerant, and I do not want to explode, we are a very close community and its best dealt with in avoidance. Suits me fine.

Tigermoth, yes I have posted before under another name. I've explained elsewhere why I want to keep my privacy as others have done by changing my nicknames. But wait a minute - why the hostility? People are congratuating each other on their sarcasm to me. I've never come across such bitchiness to perceived outsiders. I've read an extensive mumsnet discussion on how awful it is to be cliquey in the real world, so is it ok here?

By the way, I don't have an impressive memory, just the ability to read ( and a lot of curiosity)

lou33 - just a question. How do you get them to stay on the stairs? If I told my daughter to go and sit on the stairs I would be met with downright refusal and, probably, laughter, thinking it's all a game! Tactics needed please.

I just kept persevering really. If they have to have time out on the stairs i start on the first one, and if they keep coming in before they are ready to behave/apologise etc then they go up a step. It seems to work, because they have never been higher than about the 3rd step yet! It didn't take more than a couple of times before they realised that mummy wasn't joking. Obviously ds at 1 is not included in this but the other 3 (aged 3, 5 almost 10) all go to the stairs if they are misbehaving.

Now if they are sent there it works pretty well, because I dont have to go and ask them if they are ready to behave/apologise, they come to me.

It might not work for everyone, but it is a solution for me.

Don't worry!!!.All children go through this phase. I am only 21 and have 2 kids aged 4 and 2and a half. When my son first hit out at another child I too was mortified. As I was only young and it happened whilst at a mother and toddler group. I felt like all eyes were on me and I felt like they must have thought I was a bad mother. I was so embarrassed (especially as the child my son had hit was screaming the place down!!)-it didn't really help!But at the end of the day if your sonis only 2 and a half(the same as my daughter is now) then they are only babies and they do not understand the fact that "it hurts".All I can suggest you do is talk to your son in a calm way. TRY (easier said than done-i know)to let him know tht he must not hit as it makes the other children cry. You could ask him to maybe say sorry(if he can talk)-even though he will not REALLY know what soory means yet. But it will make you feel better. Apologise to the other mother. She will understand as she is a mum herself obviously and leave it at that-Thats all you can do. Hope this helps

I have just been called into the nursery where my son goes. He's 2yrs 4mths and they say he is overly aggressive with the other children. He is bigger than toddlers his age and a lot stronger. From what they have said he does it doesn't seem as if he is doing anything that any other toddler does (hitting, pushing, occasional biting etc). He's very much into copying what other children do at the minute. The thing is the child they describe is not one that I'm familiar with. He only goes to nursery three days a week and I have him the rest of the time. We go to toddler groups, he plays with other children either at our house or other people's houses and we take him to the wacky warehouse and another play area. He's always very tolerant when it comes to other kids. In fact the child he plays with on a Friday is two weeks older than ds but smaller pushes him around, hits him and tries to shut the door onto him and ds doesn't retaliate for about half an hour by which time he's had enough and just pushes back (no the other child's mother doesn't tell him off which is why it goes on for about half an hour and then ds smacks him one). All the mothers in my group of friends agree he's more easy going than a lot of them. I'm not saying he never hits out first because obviously he does but very rarely (usually over a toy) but I have never seen him bite another child and other than the nursery nobody has ever said he has. The other children at the nursery do all the same things because I've seen them (when I got there yesterday ds had been bitten on the elbow which the carer said was retaliatory on the other child's part) and I know one of the other mothers and she says they have words with her about her son. There are mainly boys in his class and I've heard that this can make boys more 'aggressive' in itself. He's only just learning to talk (he was a bit slower in this aspect of his development) and they think its frustration on his part because he can't get the words out so he's hitting out. They want him to be assessed by some outside person to check he's not got some underlying problem which I've agreed to as it can't hurt can it? They do agree that its just a phase that he will grow out of once he learns to communicate better but if thats the case why bring this outside person in? Why also do I not have this problem when he's with other kids? I asked them what they did when he was naughty and pushed another child and she said she sat him down and talked to ds - what good is that he's switched off after the first two words. I don't believe she's being firm enough with him. Anyone have any ideas on how to go about this? Its all very well the nursery telling me I should be doing something about it but I can't act on something that doesn't happen at home or when we're out together can I?

Selja, I am sorry to hear you are having this worry with your son's nursery. It is so frustrating when you hear of behaviour at nursery which is not how they are at home, isn't it?
You mention that they sit down and try and chat with him after these incidents. Do you know for sure that these talks are having no impact? From my own experience, it seems that some things have to be said x 100 before they sink into the toddler psyche. I just wondered what else you thought they could do. I once asked at nursery about time-out and in ds' toddler room a child who has lost it a bit is sent to sit on a rug in the corner of the room with no toys or fun to hand for a few minutes. Time-out in a different room is clearly not a possibility in most nurseries, for child safety reasons.

Selja, my advice would be to go to the nursery yourself for a few sessions, stay the whole session and see how your son behaves.

I find it odd that he behaves in one way there and another, totally different way when you are with him and other children.

Personally, I wouldn't agree to outside assessment unless I had agreed first that there was a definite problem: children can be labelled terribly easily these days. And he is very young still.

I'm saying this as someone very involved with a nursery (although I'm not a childcare professional) and the running of it and I know that the staff can't be everywhere all the time. Maybe they blamed your son for something that was provoked by another child's behaviour? Maybe not, of course, but I think you should get down there, be visible, see for yourself and then make a decision about next steps (if any). Hope this helps.

Since writing earlier I've found out about these outside assessment people and I'm flaming mad about it. I asked one of my bosses who is a solicitor dealing in child care if he'd heard of them and its an organisation who deal with handicapped children and special needs children. He's very surprised the nursery have got them involved as he's met my son. His advice is to change nurseries. If the nursery are unable to take a firm hand (not literally of course) to ds then may be I should find somewhere who are able to deal with boisterous toddlers. Funnily enough when I picked ds up today the carer said he had been fine. The main carer (who I think isn't keen on ds and he can sense it) didn't speak to me this morning and she wasn't there this afternoon. It seems odd that whenever its this other carer (who ds adores) is there he's been fine. The main carer is leaving soon so perhaps I should wait until the new girl starts and see if it improves. I'm beginning to think that people who haven't had children shouldn't work in nurseries and hospitals as they haven't a clue if it isn't in the book. Either that or I've just been unlucky in the so-called experts that I meet.

Just wanted to mention that if your son is aware you're there it could mean he doesn't do as he normally would at nursery. Is there any way you could have a vantage point, watch through a crack in the door? Perhaps it also wouldn't hurt to make it clear to the nursery exactly how you would like them to be - firmer I gather from what you said. In my experience people can assume you mean the same thing as them especially when it comes to kids, when they actually have widely different interpretations. Good luck, it may be just a phase.

Selja, I don't have experience of this precise situation but if your son is acting up at nursery (and you haven't yet established that there really is a problem, anyway) I wonder if it's because he feels threatened or overwhelmed by all the boisterous behaviour and by the carer who you think doesn't like him? He might be reacting in the only way he knows how. I hope you manage to sort it out soon.

I totally agree with wickedwaterwitch's comments about outside assessors. Beware of getting him labeled at this tender age. You could consider getting a private assessment yourself, then letting the nursery know the results, but from what you say about your son's behaviour outside nursery, this course of action seems a bit extreme.

I can see serena's point: if your son sees you at nursery, this will affect his behaviour. I think you need to know in more detail what happens when your son causes problems: what sets him off and how he is disciplined. Can the nursery give you an update each time you collect him?

I speak from bitter experience here: my oldest son was a handful as a toddler and his little brother, so far better behaved, is still on the lively side. I am so used to comments about their behaviour from each and every carer that it would seem odd if I got none! I am now very proactive in asking for reports when I collect them, firstly, so I am in the know, and secondly, to reinforce to the carer or teacher that I will support them over any behaviour problem. I am sure this stops things escalating. Nurseries and schools IME don't automatically assume that parents of a child they deem 'difficult' are that supportive. You have to show them you are.

Having said this, I do wonder if the nursery is a good one. I find it odd that they want to call in outside assessors for a child of your son's age, especially when you have told them that he plays well outside the nursery. Are you confident that the carers are sufficiently skilled? Have you seen the Ofsted report?

Keep posting here and let us know how things develop.

Hi there Selja - I could have written your post -my ds is 4 (5 in November)and is for the most part great at home with the odd outburst but in Nursery he has had major problems and I too went down the path of consulting my Doctor after an incident where my son threw a toy and hurt another child - this was way back in October and the only thing I have heard is one letter in November saying he is on a waiting list and to be honest for the last couple of months his behavhiour at nursery has improved dramatically there are the odd days when he does stuff that gets him into trouble and if an appointment does come up for an assessment in the near future I will definately not be taking it my son is a normal 4 year old who has not learned completely to control his temper I know some adults like that!! Some kids have at that age some kids havent and at your son's age what do nurseries expect - I know they would all love a nursery full of good kids but challenging behaviour is part and parcel of nursery life I feel very strongly about this as the nursery my son attends were quite happy to label my child please dont rush into anything see how things go keep talking to your son he will eventually see the light he is still very young and if you ever need to chat to someone who has been there got the t-shirt made the stew etc etc I log in most days. I made myself a nervous reck on this very same thing last year and know how awful that long walk to nursery is every night wondering what has happened today - the keyworker my son has now is one in a million but I do know other members of staff at the nursery who are very quick to put down kids and their behaviour personally I dont think they should work in childcare if they are not prepared to accept the good with the bad - best of luck and keep your chin up your baby is still just that a baby I am positive he will work through all this stuff just like so many other kids.