Tmi alert! Help me with dd's poo!!

[bananananacoconuts]

Sorry for the tmi!
Dd august birthday age 4 so already in reception class but youngest in school does not seem to know or can't be fecking bothered when she needs to poo!
I have just had to collect her and a bag of shit ridden clothes from school an hour early! I'm at the end of my tether! She's adorable and bright and has no problems at school other than she's a poo pants!!!! Anybody got any ideas on how to make this stop? Reward charts have been in force since sept and do not seem to be working!

I have no experience with this, but wanted to send you a hug. It sounds like she's not ready and might still need pull ups.
Are her stools loose, I.e. when she needs the toilet does she have much control, or does she need to go immediately? If kids don't need to strain it can sometimes happen too quickly for them to get the toilet.

Thanks for the hug!
She does exactly what you describe! Which is why i think it's not accidental, she's just a lazy bugger! She is full time school and has a particularly unpleasant teacher next year so needs to be learning faster!

I'm confused? She does strain?

We have urinary problems in our home. It took me a really really long time to get my head round it. And the more I look into it I feel that some kids are developmentally not ready. I could be wrong but I think you shouldn't worry about the teacher. You've done your bit.

No straining. as far as i can understand from a 4yo she seems to feel it coming but squeeze her cheeks together and basically keep it in! (Sorry tmi again!) so eventually it all has to come out!

She says she knows, she says she wont suck it back up (her words) anymore and yet today was the worst EVER!
I think she just doesn't want to miss out on a single second of play/learning which is great but i also don't need the endless amount of shit i get on a weekly basis! She seems to do brilliantly for a while and i think eureka! We've cracked it and then out of nowhere we are straight back to square one!
I've tried shouting, hugging, telling her not to worry but i must admit today i lost it! I'm not proud of it at all but between this and her possible asd/adhd/dyspraxia brother i have had enough!

Remind her that if she has to get picked up early because she pooed her pants that she misses far more than if she went to the loo!

It does sound pretty urgent when she has to go. Does she have to ask permission to go to the toilet or can she just get up and go? If she has to ask, is this embarrassing for her? Can you ask the teacher to let her just go as soon as she needs to? Teacher can't enjoy poo pants either so should support making it easier for her!

Bear with me, is it possible she is actually constipated?

I have dealt with my dd's poo stains for years and I feel your frustration.

I discovered that it is in effect, an "overflow" problem due to constipation.

I could be way off the mark but if you search for similar threads there have been a few where some really knowledgeable people gave great advice.

I have at times lost it with dd after throwing away yet another pair of soiled knickers, don't beat yourself up will you?

Oh yes thornrose, you're right when some kids are impacted/constipated their stools get loose.

Son doesn't have poo accidents, and luckily he goes like clockwork in morning. But when he needs it he can't hold it in because it's loose. I honestly don't think she's being lazy, if you don't have to strain it's hard to hold it in.
Maybe chat with health visitor. I bugged doctors and health visitors till I got support. So now I accept the situation a lot better and can be more supportive towards him too.
I think pullups are essential for now, especially if you have other children who need so much from you. She doesn't sound ready. Keep the incentives and reminding her, but she just doesn't sound ready. Notice if different foods make it worse for her. In our home I limit certain foods as he's prone to even looser stools due to the food.

Absolutely no experience I this so not sure why I'm putting my tuppence worth in! However, I had a thought that scheduled toilet trips may help ie. working with the teacher to make sure she is sent to the toilet twice a day if she doesn't ask eg. Once in the morning and once after lunch. I know they can't do this for everyone but they may help you out for a bit. Good luck.

Is the problem (which sounds like hanging on till the last possible minute and getting it wrong) worse at school? Could it be that she doesn't like pooing in the school toilets? Do you think that getting her to poo at home before school would help?

They do have scheduled trips and are also allowed to leave the room whenever needed as our foundation stage is a building in itself and so the children cannot get lost/escape!
She is definitely not constipated although i have noticed that when she does actually use the toilet she seems to do one bit of poo (sorry!) and then that is all! I have sat with her and read a story, and also given her a book to read by herself when she wanted me out the room! But she is adamant that after the one piece she is finished! So on days where she uses the toilet we have a day of no poo followed by a day of 3 or 4! She doesn't ever seem to have what i would say is a "proper" poo!

Thanks for all your knowledge ladies!

She does it home too!

I think hanging on til the last minute and getting it wrong is spot on piprabbit! She's such an amazing little girl. Teachers say she's delightful and she has lots of friends and they all say what a happy child she is and she'll throw herself in to any activity, and that just seems to be the problem! She is so happy to be at school, learning and playing that she simply doesn't want to miss a minute! Maybe we could chat tomo about having to go home early and so she missed finishing her role play game and story time and if she's have spent 5 mins on the toilet, she'd have had all those lovely things!
She has to have tomorrow off school as the teacher said she had diahorrea and so needs 24 hour clearance so maybe that's an angle i could use too

I think you've got it right - a 'grown-up' chat about missing out seems like a sensible idea.
Also wondering if you need to take a look at her diet, may be make sure she is getting enough fibre and not too much fruit (always makes my DCs a bit loose if they over do it, especially orange juice etc.) - might make it easier to control?

You're definitely right on the fruit pip! My clever little girl would have more than 5 a day if she was allowed! She's a fantastic eater but maybe we should reign in the foods i am desperate to get in to ds!

Feel bad for complaining really but she is truly perfect in every way, EXCEPT AT TOILET TIME!!

My daughter did this for years. In the end we went to the doctor and got Movicol. This sofens the poo and makes it easier to come out so there should be a daily soft poo. It can be a medical issue because constipation, even a little, can cause the sensation to be lost (that they need a poo). I thought my daughter was not constipated because she had loose little bits of small poo (but this was the leakage around the edges!) Movicol was a miracle for us (and I know lots of other people on mumsnet who agree). There is probably a medical reason for this so see a doctor and get some Movicol!

Suede, you said it so much better than me. Its a bit of a revelation when you realise constipation is the issue, isn't it?

It's definitely something i'm willing to try! although i am unsure it is constipation as she doesn't just do small amounts of it! Could she be constipated and then it all come out at once? Also she says that when she feels it coming she squeezes it back in because she's usually busy! Which makes me think she just doesn't want to miss anything and then accidents happen!
We had a long chat yesterday and i made sure that the day was uneventful, and she did say it was boring and she missed her friends so i reiterated the point that her teachers thought her tummy was poorly so they said she should have the day off school incase it happens again etc etc.
She did infact have a poo at home yesterday but she was still squeezing it back up as i found her dancing around the living room BUT NOT ON THE BLOODY TOILET!

Going back to basics I know, but could it be worth going on a shopping trip for some new pants, maybe with days of the week on for her to have just one pair a day?

Perhaps promise a specific toy or treat for a pooing in the toilet day? Does she take in some toilet wet wipes in her bag? Also could try putting paper in the toilet before a poo in case the splash back means she avoids doing it.

Just some thoughts,

Sarah

Thanks for your great ideas sarah. We have been on multiple trips for new pants but haven't tried the days of the week so thats a great idea!
She does take wipes, and has spare clothes on her peg as do all the children.
Had a bit of a brainwave while getting dressed this morning and we're on a good old sticker chart! We will check pants at tea time each night and if they're clean she gets a sticker and when the chart is full she'll get a treat! How many stickers are we thinking is realistic enough to keep her interested?

If it's a daily problem then I'd go with one! If its twice weekly maybe two, all depends on how regularly it's happening.

It's tricky as we can go weeks and weeks without an accident, then four in a row! I am thinking in the first instance we try 5 days and then increase it over time!

I'm in the same boat with mt 5yo DD. seems out of laziness but makes such a difference when she has movicol. Even if she has one sachet every couple of days she has less accidents and is more inclined to go to the toilet, rather than in knickers. Also taking wipes to school have helped massively.
Definitely talk to your gp, and you need to get into a routine with how much your child needs and how often. There are movicol threads so have a read up
Good luck!! Hope the pooey knickers are no more!