Daily battles with 4 year old ds...........

[Northerner]

All day, every day. ASking him to brush teeth/get dressed/come to teh table/tidy away toys 3 or 4 times before he even acknowledges me. He is really answering back, sticking out his tongue, not sharing toys on play dates all of a sudden, and shouting and me dh and anyone else in the vicinity.

He is driving me wild. Under all of this bravado he is a funny, loving little monkey, but to an outsider, I'm sure they just see a rude, loud, obnoxious boy.

I am dealing with it, he gets sent to his room (about 10 time a day atm) and has toys consficated and loses treats such as sweets and TV. Guesss I just want to hear that this is normal, and school will calm him down. (won't it??)

Yes, sympathise - they are testing out their muscles.
In fact, when DS was getting very 'shouty' it was explained to me that they have a big testosterone surge at this time, and to a certain extent can't help it. Match firmness with loads of positive affirmation....does it ever change from when they are 2???

Actually, i find that when DS, 4, seems to be squaring himself up almost deliberately (shouting poo-head etc), it's best to ignore him, otherwise we end up in an escalating spiral of conflict. He also tends to pump himself up in a macho way to 'tough out' any punishment or sanction. It's a fine line, isn't it? I sort of try to stick to a basic code 'no, we don't do that...'

if ds is being a pain, he'll go to bed when baby does at 6.30pm. If he is good he stays up til 7

If it is near to bed-time, we threaten ds with losing his story. He gets one chance then loses the story if he continues with the behaviour.

If earlier in the day, he loses something else, or goes to sit on the stairs. The bedroom doesn't work here, because he just starts playing!

Ive just been reading this, my 4 year old goes to bed at 830. I really didn't think this was too late but will have a rethink now.

my mum was just remarking to me how there seems to be a fashion for kids to go to bed later now! She said that between 6 and 7 seemed what everybody she knew did from when she was tiny to when she had me and my bro in the late sixties....

my DS is usually asleep by 6 or 6.30pm, because he has always been a very early riser...I think, not sure on the actual advice developmenally, but I think under 5 kids need about 11 hours a night. Put it this way, it won't harm them if they get this!

I'm sure longer sleep will help children's moods. It does with my DS.

I agree with cod's suggestion of zero tolerance for a while so that he fully understands what your expectations are...once all clear on that I think ignore whatever silliness you possibly can, just don't engage. Boys do get testosterone surges about this age and after all, silliness will occur, we are dealing with children, not adults..so ignoring is a good strategy as far as you can.

I saw Tony Robinson on TV recently and he said he was referred to a hearing specialist, his mum was so convinced his hearing was really bad..but he was just ignoring her! He said she talked ALL THE TIME and he just zoned out. I think that's a boy thing, and it has made me more careful to get down to DS and look gim in the eye when I am making a request. It can break that sort of zoning out mechanism, he knows I am talking to him!

I'm rambling but hope some of this is relevant.

Ds in bed at 7pm tonight, asleep by 7.10pm. I am amazed.

Another one here with a 4yr old ds. He went to bed at 5.30 tonight and zonked straight out (bedtime is usually 7pm but I had had enough and he can't tell the time )

I started a thread about by 4 year old a few days ago. she's awful. have been trying isolating her as carrots and sticks don't work - just sending her to the spare room (not her room cos that's full of toys, spare room has nothing interesting in it) and it seems to be having some effect. she's a little attention seeker and making her see that playing up results in her sister getting me all to herself while she's left out seems to work. ish. only been trying it for 3 days and she's been away with dh for 2 of them

DD goes to bed at 8 and gets up at 6 we have tried putting her down earlier but shejust wakes up and starts playing earlier so will stick with what we have atm cause at least she is letting us get some sleep.